Maths ... AIBU?

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I was chatting with a colleague the other day; we have daughters in secondary school, and both are struggling with Maths. I am currently looking for a tutor for my daughter.
I simply cannot understand the 'one size fits all' approach to the teaching of this subject, and believe that it requires an overhaul. Why - when she does perfectly well in her other subjects - would my daughter need to learn about the equation of a line, trigonometry, algebra? What good is going to come of this in her everyday future life?
Rather, why can't she be taught mathematics related life skills? Lessons that revolve around addition, subtraction, percentages, bank statements, interest ... and all other useful elements of the subject.
Leave the serious study of maths to those who are gifted or even interested in it. And let the others ditch it in favour of the practical basics, where they might actually achieve something.
Why are they all still being taught the same things? And why are so many young people particularly girls still failing at this subject?
AIBU?

Things like algebra are used in everyday life, in baking for example, or cooking a turkey.
Please explain. I have cooked dozens of turkeys, never once needed algebra to do it!

I don’t think it’s a female thing at all but I do think, if you really do struggle with maths, like me, then it can be an impossible barrier in life. People with even limited ability cannot understand what it’s like.

My school experiences of maths really put me off as well. We were given class positions which were read out and I was always, always last. Teachers would try and get me to answer questions in front of the class which I would invariably fail to answer. They thought I wasn’t trying but I was. I just didn’t have a conceptual grasp of it at any level. If I read a question to myself I just wouldn’t get it. Anything with names in it, such as Jane has 16 sweets etc I would get hung up on wondering who Jane was, why did she have the sweets.? How come she had 16 etc. A year in American school meant going to Math Lab for extra help. Dreadful and humiliating.

I got an F at GCSE and then a number of E’s at resit. It stopped me going into teaching. I wanted to be an English teacher. Fair enough though. I get that. Turns out my mum couldn’t do maths either. She didn’t pass any maths qualifications but she taught English and Drama at a Grammar School all her life. You didn’t need it then. My brother was totally fine with maths btw. I was good at sport, English, History and Drama.

Roll on to my kids. I was 100% positive about it. I was not going to pass on any attitude at all. Said I enjoyed it, it was fun, interesting, useful and enabled you to do loads of things, including things that you wouldn’t think needed it. Kept my ineptitude quiet until it became obvious at about Year 4 homework. I said that maths and numbers were beautiful, which I do think they are in a way. Super positive about it along with everything else. My daughter struggled so much at maths that eventually at secondary they tested for dyscalculia. She had traits and was given longer for GCSE. She worked so so hard and got a 3, missing the grade by 19 points. Resat again and got 3, 2, 2. The only reason she got a 4 was in her A-Level year they gave the predicted grades and for resits the school automatically predicted a pass. Otherwise it would have stopped her getting into Uni for her BA Illustration with Art Foundation year which she is excelling at.

I think if there was an extra Practical Maths or even lower level GCSE type paper, lower than the existing lower paper or with emphasis on different topics, that ran alongside, not instead of, the regular GCSE then it would stop the detrimental effects of dyscalculia, or may at least lessen those effects and allow some people to move forward. I think though that the normal GCSE syllabus should be taught and all should sit it too, boys AND girls.

Sorry for long post btw.

@Lovelanguedoc

Things like algebra are used in everyday life, in baking for example, or cooking a turkey. Please explain. I have cooked dozens of turkeys, never once needed algebra to do it!

You have a turkey that takes 100 minutes to cook, 1kg of turkey takes 20 minutes to cook, how much does your turkey weigh?

X = mass in Kg
20x = 100
X = 5

There's a good 50:50 split between male and female students at degree level. Your point that particularly girls struggle with maths is nonsense.

Problem solving is a great skill to have and maths feeds into this. The equation of a line is important as this is the foundation of statistical regression which will pop up in many careers and degree subjects.

Maths promotes logical thinking, applying a systematic approach, problem solving and creative thinking. It is a universal language.

If you're not good at maths, or think it should be set aside for the gifted, then you won't be able to see just how often it pops up in life. Maths is everywhere, and understanding it is key to understanding how things work.

And it's not difficult if you give yourself time to really consider the problems.

"We do. England is one of the few countries amongst it's economic peers that makes post-16 maths optional. "

I work in a college. Students who didn't achieve GCSE do have to repeat maths (and English) until they're 18 or 19. Ones that got a 1 or 2 at GCSE do Functional Skills (FS) maths first, but the expectation is that they complete a GCSE by the time they're 18. L2 FS (instead of GCSE) is more suited to some of them, if they really can't achieve, but it's not really used much currently. Which is a shame IMO.

I'm not a maths teacher, but I work a lot with these students on maths. I try and teach them to love maths, as the negativity is such a barrier, and it's great when they do achieve it. Sometimes they need that 1:1 and they can get it, just takes that extra year.

I agree with the sentiment OP. I think it would be far more useful to get 90% in a test of the arithmetic (decimals, fractions, ratios, percentages, compound interest) rather than 50% in a test of all that plus trig, co-ordinate geometry, quadratic equations.

I think basic algebra (simple simultaneous equations, re-arranging), simple probability, data analysis and maths literacy (eg scrutinising statistical claims that appear in the news) would also be helpful too.

Obviously there are people who have specific dyscalculia and difficulties with maths; but I think the majority of people just need lots of practice and more confidence. This might mean repeating the same types of exercises from ‘primary’ maths for several years until people have mastered it. Linking it to bank interest, electricity tariff choosing, news articles could give it the important context and relevance.

Obviously this is different from academic maths, which could be in addition to this for the people who want to do more.

Op, I think it's absolutely awful how they push maths.

It's not the same as as English at all because of course we need to read nearly evry day and we need to read to get by in life and get around.

It's very different in maths because we don't need to know alebgra or the circumference of a circle to get by day to day.

I totally agree op that such dc should be taught other forms of maths like day to day budgeting, investing, even eccomics, inflation, mortgage, debt.. All that stuff.

Some of people's really don't understand just how much people struggle and cannot understand it and sit day after day after the day wasting their time.

If you really struggle, you need to go back to basics and re learn them. Some students really struggle to read and need phonics instruction in year 7+.

I don't use my history, geography, music, drama, PE, technology knowledge at all in day to day life. However I still see the value in learning that stuff. Partly in case I wanted to use it later. Partly for the joy of learning.

I'm a maths tutor (used to be a teacher) and I find a lot of students lack confidence- if you just slightly misunderstand something you can get every question wrong. As a teacher I was responsible for financial education so I also see the value in this but it's not tested so not seen as important

I can't see the the link between those subjects and learning the circumference of something or knowing how to calculate a gap in a triangle?

I'm not saying these things are not important to the right people but I don't see it as life enriching to many people.

Lobba, sometimes it's really not just confidence.

It's about having a good grounding so that if you do go on to need maths in the next stage of education/work/training, you still have options open.

No one says "oh I don't use the knowledge I learnt about the Spanish civil war every day" or "knowing about rivers in geography isn't a skill I need daily so what's the point".

You can't just stop at 11 and say OK you people get to do maths and you people don't. That would be wrong.

YABU. It’s part of a rounded education, teaches concepts that are useful to understand (e.g. statistics, graphs) and the comment “how will she use this in later life” could be applied to many other subjects. The basic maths skills you mention are primary school level.

Girls do better that boys in GCSEs generally. Maths is one of the few subjects where boys do better, but the gap is marginal these days (something like 20% of boys getting top grades in maths, compared to about 19% of girls).

I don't know why boys do relatively better in maths, but its hardly as if girls are really struggling at it either...

Omg school life time of algebra to know how to cook a turkey 😂😂😂🐦🐦,

I've never cooked one, I don't like them and usually meat has the cook time on the packet or Google it!

We don't need years and years and years of it to cook a turkey.

What we do need is an understanding of investment, compound interest, mortgages, rent, benefit training!

Credit cards and debt on your file and what that does.

benefit training!
Come again??

That content isn't currently examined so not prioritised. Plus it should be taught at home. Compound interest is on the curriculum.

Credit cards and debt should be covered in phse.

@SimonJT I just couldn’t work out 2021-1988, maybe it was denial 😂
Oh give over, I've got a good few years on you and I'm definitely not old yet... (denial is a river in Egypt, right?) 😝

@Puttingouthefirewithgasoline

Some of people's really don't understand just how much people struggle and cannot understand it and sit day after day after the day wasting their time.

That's true. I work with those young people. But at least give them a chance to pass a GCSE. Although maybe some should do Functional Skills exam at school if by GCSE year it's known they have no chance of passing it.

You can’t apply the, “when would you need it” line! Mine has just learned about the Battle of Hastings.

I actually used Pythagorean Theorum recently in a sewing project of all things! I have yet to actually apply my knowledge of why Harald Hardrada’s attack contributed to William the Conquerers win...

The maths top set for my Y8 and Y10 are an even split of boys and girls.

Please let’s stop perpetuating this utter crap about maths being hard did girls. Only if you fail them by telling them that it is.

Yes, they do algebra and trig... but have you looked at all the questions? There’s a lot of interest rate calculation, % off in a sale, minimum amounts of food stuffs to buy to make economic packs (HCM and LCF work). It’s all very real world applied.

People often say, “they should learn the useful stuff”, and I wonder if they’ve actually looked at the material?!

@Puttingouthefirewithgasoline

Some of people's really don't understand just how much people struggle and cannot understand it and sit day after day after the day wasting their time.

I think I do though. Many of my students start out discouraged and not understanding much. I taught one girl who used to sit and meow at me in her lessons ( aged about 8 and she liked cats but thought she couldn't do maths) She is in year 11 now and I am expecting she will get somewhere between a grade 5-7 for her GCSE. I've been tutoring for 16 years and in that time I've only taught 1 student who really struggled to make much progress and he had a lot of other things going on in his life which may have impacted on things.

[quote BewareTheBeardedDragon]**@SimonJT* I just couldn’t work out 2021-1988, maybe it was denial* 😂
Oh give over, I've got a good few years on you and I'm definitely not old yet... (denial is a river in Egypt, right?) 😝[/quote]
I thought I was 34, so it was also a happy revelation when I calculated this extremely hard sum on my phone.

Why do people think schools should be teaching things such as how to read bank statements?

When you have children you have a responsibility to teach them basic life skills. Its part of your job ad their parent, society is all too quick to allocate responsibility for these things to schools.

There are only 25 hours of teaching time in a week. That's 950 a year.
Schools need to focus on the academic subjects and parents need to step up & patent.

I had a real laugh with my nephew 16 during first lockdown. We stay on same farm, it was lambing so I was home school person.

Sat doing maths and he said, so, have you had to use this aunty?

Me..........flashback twenty plus years, please learn this because in 2020 you will need it in a pandemic to homeschool your nephew.