Page 9 | Sometimes I feel like this is George Orwell’s 1984

Namechangeforobv · 2021-05-20T13:36:20+00:00

Name change as my last thread attracted a lot of attention. Anyway, am I the only one that feels like freedom of speech is slowly dying?! If my opinion or views differ from the ‘woke’ then it is clearly not valid! For example I voted to leave the EU, I chose this because leaving benefitted me more than staying. My personal circumstances, my personal choice. Conversation starts at work about it, I was asked what I voted and immediately discussion closed because it was so “wrong” that I had voted this. YABU for “no your wrong” YANBU for “yes I agree”

DreamingNow · 20/05/2021 21:18

@EYProvider

So in other words, *@Sunflowers095*, old people outside of Scotland and London voted for Brexit to get rid of ‘foreigners’?

That is such an embarrassingly naive world view. It says far more about you than it does about them.

Don’t want to derail but being one of those ‘foreigners’ I can promise you that I felt we were one of the focus of the vote and then afterwards of a lot of the decisions that were taken. I won’t be forgetting the ‘jumping the queue’ or the ‘citizens of nowhere’ any time soon. Or the posters with the long queue of immigrants just waiting to get into the U.K....

And it wasn’t people voting. It was politicians going on about it. There is no wonder why people then either latch on on that or think this is the reason why people voted that way. It was in our face constantly....

But again, look at effect.

The campaign was very well done in that it separated people into black and white groups with no possible concessions.
After the vote, it endeavoured to bring people against each other and it still going on....
Many Remainers will not accept that Brexit can have brought some positive things.
Many leavers can not entertain that it’s not going to be all sunny uplands and great.
It’s like accepting one or the other is going to see the world end. And in some ways it’s true. Because accepting that ‘the other’ might have been right in some ways is also accepting that you might have been wrong. And who likes to be wrong?

DreamingNow · 20/05/2021 21:19

My views were in no way extreme nor a minority. It just wasn’t what some people wanted to hear.

Surely what this means isn’t that you are been silenced but that the ‘other side’ behaved really badly??
There has been many threads deleted on MN because they became a bunfight even though it had nothing to do with the OP.

Pumperthepumper · 20/05/2021 21:23

If you read my OP, it was due to mums net deleting a thread I had started.
Thread turned nasty due to others not agreeing with my views (which they have every right not to) and becoming personal and a bit nasty in the comments.
My views were in no way extreme nor a minority. It just wasn’t what some people wanted to hear.

Mumsnet is a private company though - they can delete your thread for literally any reason they like. They can delete it because they don’t like your username. That’s not an example of losing free speech rights.

If you shouted racial abuse in Tesco, for example, they could ask you to leave. That’s not against your freedom of speech either- it’s the consequence of saying something offensive.

So if your thread caused any grief at all for Mumsnet - even if you behaved perfectly - they can delete it if they want to. That’s not against your right to free speech.

Original poster

Namechangeforobv · 20/05/2021 21:24

@DreamingNow

My views were in no way extreme nor a minority. It just wasn’t what some people wanted to hear.

Surely what this means isn’t that you are been silenced but that the ‘other side’ behaved really badly??
There has been many threads deleted on MN because they became a bunfight even though it had nothing to do with the OP.

But I feel that deleting the thread is getting rid of mine and others views. Why couldn’t just nasty comments be deleted if they breached guidelines? Or why not just stop further commenting on said thread? Deleting it is deleting the whole validity of the issues being discussed.

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Notthemessiah · 20/05/2021 21:25

Freedom of speech does not equal freedom from consequences. You are free to express an opinion, I am free to disagree and think less of you for holding that opinion, you are then similarly free to think I'm being intolerant or judgemental, and on we go......

It's a fairly common thing now for voices on the right of the political spectrum to be everywhere complaining about how they are being silenced or not allowed to express an opinion, but the irony of seems to be lost on them.

Original poster

Namechangeforobv · 20/05/2021 21:27

@Pumperthepumper

If you read my OP, it was due to mums net deleting a thread I had started. Thread turned nasty due to others not agreeing with my views (which they have every right not to) and becoming personal and a bit nasty in the comments. My views were in no way extreme nor a minority. It just wasn’t what some people wanted to hear.

Mumsnet is a private company though - they can delete your thread for literally any reason they like. They can delete it because they don’t like your username. That’s not an example of losing free speech rights.

If you shouted racial abuse in Tesco, for example, they could ask you to leave. That’s not against your freedom of speech either- it’s the consequence of saying something offensive.

So if your thread caused any grief at all for Mumsnet - even if you behaved perfectly - they can delete it if they want to. That’s not against your right to free speech.

Yes, mums net deleted the thread because they did not want it on their website. They decide what stays and what doesn’t.

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Original poster

Namechangeforobv · 20/05/2021 21:28

I can still feel the way I do about it though right? It’s my right to feel like this.

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Pumperthepumper · 20/05/2021 21:29

@Namechangeforobv

I can still feel the way I do about it though right? It’s my right to feel like this.

Well yes, but you can’t use it as an example of how free speech is being lost or how we’re living like Orwell’s 1984 because.......it’s not.

Original poster

Namechangeforobv · 20/05/2021 21:31

@Notthemessiah

Freedom of speech does not equal freedom from consequences. You are free to express an opinion, I am free to disagree and think less of you for holding that opinion, you are then similarly free to think I'm being intolerant or judgemental, and on we go......

It's a fairly common thing now for voices on the right of the political spectrum to be everywhere complaining about how they are being silenced or not allowed to express an opinion, but the irony of seems to be lost on them.

Are you assuming I am “on the right of the political spectrum” because I voted leave? Now who’s being judgemental?

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Notthemessiah · 20/05/2021 21:33

@Namechangeforobv

I can still feel the way I do about it though right? It’s my right to feel like this.

Absolutely. But when I am sat in the chair until I am forced to agree that your opinion that 2 + 2 = 5 is one I should respect , then we really have reached 1984.

Original poster

Namechangeforobv · 20/05/2021 21:36

But I don’t think I did compare mums net to 1984? I’m talking about today’s world.

My opinion was definitely not lost... deleted yes but lost no.

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Pumperthepumper · 20/05/2021 21:38

@Namechangeforobv

But I don’t think I did compare mums net to 1984? I’m talking about today’s world.

My opinion was definitely not lost... deleted yes but lost no.

So what in today’s world is like 1984?

Original poster

Namechangeforobv · 20/05/2021 21:39

But that’s the beauty of free speech, you don’t have to agree with me. I just think it’s healthy to take into account everyone’s views, including yours, we don’t have to conform to them nor should we disregard them due to being different

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Notthemessiah · 20/05/2021 21:40

Are you assuming I am “on the right of the political spectrum” because I voted leave? Now who’s being judgemental?

I am (not that I accused you of being judgemental in the first place, but whatever). Surely you don't begrudge me my opinion?

Nothingyet · 20/05/2021 21:40

It is Brexiters who are speeding us to 1984 with their Little Englander xenophobia. No wonder people don't want to talk to you.

Original poster

Namechangeforobv · 20/05/2021 21:40

My reference to 1984 was regarding The Thought Police.

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Pumperthepumper · 20/05/2021 21:40

@Namechangeforobv

My reference to 1984 was regarding The Thought Police.

And who specifically is that?

Original poster

Namechangeforobv · 20/05/2021 21:42

@Notthemessiah

Are you assuming I am “on the right of the political spectrum” because I voted leave? Now who’s being judgemental?

I am (not that I accused you of being judgemental in the first place, but whatever). Surely you don't begrudge me my opinion?

It’s an assumption not an opinion as you are assuming that everyone who voted leave is right wing. I don’t think this is very fair. You can however be of the opinion that me voting to leave was “very right wing”.

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Original poster

Namechangeforobv · 20/05/2021 21:43

An example - Anyone that indulges in “cancel culture” due to someone having opposing views.

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Pumperthepumper · 20/05/2021 21:45

@Namechangeforobv

An example - Anyone that indulges in “cancel culture” due to someone having opposing views.

Such as? You’re being quite vague and the back-and-forth is taking quite a lot of time, could you just say specifically who the thought police are, how they’re impacting on your life and the relation to 1984 in 2021?

Original poster

Namechangeforobv · 20/05/2021 21:46

@Nothingyet

It is Brexiters who are speeding us to 1984 with their Little Englander xenophobia. No wonder people don't want to talk to you.

Hmmm, I don’t remember mentioning anything about people from other countries? But I voted leave so does this make me a xenophobe by default?

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Ihatefish · 20/05/2021 21:46

Debates are shut down. The flawed diversity dogma (which in fact leads to anything but diversity) espoused by certain groups is as dangerous as any extremism.

F Scott Fitzgerald once said something along the lines of intelligence is being able to hold two conflicting views in your mind without collapse. There seems a concerted effort to remove intelligence, the ability to critically think about things, to have a thought out opinion, be it through tv programming, social media or the hijacking of our educational system by Marxists hiding behind those who are the most vulnerable attempting to shape the minds of the young into unthinking worker Epsilon bees. Not only are people being discouraged from holding two conflicting thoughts in their minds, society is becoming a place, in which it is only safe to appear if you chant the modern day version of the Nicene creed, take a knee and genuflect at the altar of wokeism.

It is so important for development of both self and society to hold and understand different view points, but anyone not adhering to the aforementioned dogma is seen as a heretic and burned at the social media cancel culture stake.

Adherence to the same view point with no room for differing opinions leads to inertia, a position far more dangerous to society than any disagreement.

No doubt many of the things that now appear in the Bible of wokeism had well meant roots, but as Thomas Cranmer begins his preface to the Book of Common Prayer, everything is eventually corrupted.

People that cannot understand everything will look differently depending on perspective should question the whether life is actually most successfully viewed through a single pane.

Original poster

Namechangeforobv · 20/05/2021 21:49

No, I’m being general as this is a general discussion about different views in today’s world being censored or not considered as it doesn’t fit the majority.

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Pumperthepumper · 20/05/2021 21:49

@Namechangeforobv

No, I’m being general as this is a general discussion about different views in today’s world being censored or not considered as it doesn’t fit the majority.

Like what though?

EYProvider · 20/05/2021 21:52

So because I’m pointing out that you are pigeonholing people who do not live in London and Scotland and are ‘old’ (in your opinion), I am (1) offended, (2) emotional and (3) one of ‘them’?

Are you for real?

I live in London by the way, and I can assure you that it’s a bit more nuanced than young people who live in London ‘being more used to foreigners’.