Sometimes I feel like this is George Orwell’s 1984

[Namechangeforobv]

Name change as my last thread attracted a lot of attention.
Anyway, am I the only one that feels like freedom of speech is slowly dying?!
If my opinion or views differ from the ‘woke’ then it is clearly not valid!

For example I voted to leave the EU, I chose this because leaving benefitted me more than staying. My personal circumstances, my personal choice.
Conversation starts at work about it, I was asked what I voted and immediately discussion closed because it was so “wrong” that I had voted this.

YABU for “no your wrong”
YANBU for “yes I agree”

What has Brexit got to do with being Woke (eg being aware of systematic injustice and prejudices) ?

The trouble is that your op contains an example that I have very strong feelings about. It is the most important decision Britain has made since the war, and may be pretty much irreversible. All of us have to live with the effects and it was a hell of a lot easier to ‘debate’ when it was a theoretical matter than it is now it’s a practical reality, with exactly what was predicted would go wrong, going wrong. I think you have to be prepared for a certain amount of anger from those who are impacted. It’s equally as childish to expect to play a role in other peoples lives being ruined and face no resentment as it is to not listen to other points of view.

@HarrietPierce

TimeFlysWhenYoureHavingRum Thu 20-May-21 15:33:56 "Very happy to hear something positive about Brexit OP - can you say how it has benefitted you - would be great to know!"

I would genuinely like to know also.

I bet you wouldn’t

@MayYouLiveInInterestingTimes

The trouble is that your op contains an example that I have very strong feelings about. It is the most important decision Britain has made since the war, and may be pretty much irreversible. All of us have to live with the effects and it was a hell of a lot easier to ‘debate’ when it was a theoretical matter than it is now it’s a practical reality, with exactly what was predicted would go wrong, going wrong. I think you have to be prepared for a certain amount of anger from those who are impacted. It’s equally as childish to expect to play a role in other peoples lives being ruined and face no resentment as it is to not listen to other points of view.

You have every right to this opinion.

"I bet you wouldn’t"

To me Brexit is an absolute shit show and even an architect of it, David Davies, is having to employ people to inform him of the benefits.

It was not so much a reference to what we voted for but rather that my opinion wasn’t welcomed because I was choosing to vote differently to what the other party believed.

You are vilified by both sides though, the right can be equally as intolerant of opinions and discussion as the left. There’s plenty of people with extreme and offensive opinions (both right and left wing) who are openly and freely expressing them, look at what’s published in the popular right wing press as an example.

If you have opinions which are unusual and the offensive to the majority then you will suffer consequences and this has always been the case. What’s different now is that the opinions that were once popular are now becoming unpopular and the people who still hold them aren’t happy about it.

@Elsiebear90

You are vilified by both sides though, the right can be equally as intolerant of opinions and discussion as the left. There’s plenty of people with extreme and offensive opinions (both right and left wing) who are openly and freely expressing them, look at what’s published in the popular right wing press as an example.

If you have opinions which are unusual and the offensive to the majority then you will suffer consequences and this has always been the case. What’s different now is that the opinions that were once popular are now becoming unpopular and the people who still hold them aren’t happy about it.

Interesting point.

A related aspect is that everything is expressed in extremes, in black or white, in winning or losing. There is no attempt to address serious reservations people have with an issue. That was certainly the case with Brexit - it became nothing more than a power play from on high.

I fail to see the problem here. You were asked your opinion, others disagreed with it and said you were wrong (I.e their opinion) and the conversation ended.

Or am I missing something? How was your freedom of speech restricted?

@MayYouLiveInInterestingTimes

A related aspect is that everything is expressed in extremes, in black or white, in winning or losing. There is no attempt to address serious reservations people have with an issue. That was certainly the case with Brexit - it became nothing more than a power play from on high.

I can agree with this and I definitely think there was power play in the background on certain aspects. The whole break away from the EU was also marred with power struggles which I think led to some people wishing they had never voted. It was a very drawn out process and the uncertainty was awful.

@Notthemessiah

I fail to see the problem here. You were asked your opinion, others disagreed with it and said you were wrong (I.e their opinion) and the conversation ended.

Or am I missing something? How was your freedom of speech restricted?

I was asked how I voted. My opinion was not considered due to what I voted. There is a difference. I was not given the same courtesy as everyone else in the office and treated differently after this incident.

So in other words, @Sunflowers095, old people outside of Scotland and London voted for Brexit to get rid of ‘foreigners’?

That is such an embarrassingly naive world view. It says far more about you than it does about them.

I’m also struggling to see how your freedom of speech was restricted- you had an unpleasant conversation with your colleagues and bad feeling around Brexit is still high. Nobody stopped you having your opinion.

I’m in Scotland and my two closest friends are pro-independence, while I’m definitely not. We’ve had loads and loads of discussions about it - I completely see their point of view, Scotland’s vote is routinely ignored and Tory rule seems endless. To me it’s a long term solution to a present day problem. We’ve never fallen out about it.

But, but, isn't reasoned discussion about democratic choices quite a big part of why people like freedom of speech?

There was a lot of uncertainty because Brexit was never defined before the vote. Hence different groups infighting for what their definition of Brexit was.

But that doesn’t explain the point you want to make which is the lack of courtesy etc... when you have a different opinion.

So every opinion has to be considered no matter how much you may personally disagree with it? People should have to listen to you? Isn't that kind of the opposite of freedom?

For example I voted to leave the EU, I chose this because leaving benefitted me more than staying.
How has this worked out for you?

@Pumperthepumper

I’m also struggling to see how your freedom of speech was restricted- you had an unpleasant conversation with your colleagues and bad feeling around Brexit is still high. Nobody stopped you having your opinion.

I’m in Scotland and my two closest friends are pro-independence, while I’m definitely not. We’ve had loads and loads of discussions about it - I completely see their point of view, Scotland’s vote is routinely ignored and Tory rule seems endless. To me it’s a long term solution to a present day problem. We’ve never fallen out about it.

My original post was about something completely different.

The Brexit vote situation was an example of when I have been shut down in a discussion due to my opinion being different, this did not prompt my post today.

There was a lot of uncertainty because Brexit was never defined before the vote
Why would you vote for something that hadn't been defined?

@EYProvider

So in other words, *@Sunflowers095*, old people outside of Scotland and London voted for Brexit to get rid of ‘foreigners’?

That is such an embarrassingly naive world view. It says far more about you than it does about them.

A lot of them voted in line with their perception of foreigners and it would be naive & ignorant to deny that.

You really should do some reading/research/thinking because your ignorance is showing and the truth seems to hit a nerve with you. Again, if the shoe fits..

@Namechangeforobv so what did prompt it? How is your freedom of speech being restricted?

@GreyhoundG1rl

For example I voted to leave the EU, I chose this because leaving benefitted me more than staying. How has this worked out for you?

At this point in time I still feel that I would vote the same.

Drawn out? The actual process of studying all the complexities involved was remarkably short as I remember, I’ve heard of legal cases that took longer and international treaties usually do. Armed disputes, eg in NI, have been known to last longer still. I know a lot of people who think this was far too complex an issue to put to a simple yes/ no vote and didn’t think they should be asked to participate, which I can respect as few - anyone?- on here would have read the agreement even now much less understood all aspects! But the idea that 4 years is a short time to discuss an issue and provides such desperate uncertainty was itself, in my view, a sign of someone’s desperation to push through matters requiring much more careful consideration. Brexit is not over - it was not a single event but the beginning of a new life, for better and worse - and the impacts will not go away just because some choose to stop paying attention.

[quote Pumperthepumper]@Namechangeforobv so what did prompt it? How is your freedom of speech being restricted?[/quote]
If you read my OP, it was due to mums net deleting a thread I had started.
Thread turned nasty due to others not agreeing with my views (which they have every right not to) and becoming personal and a bit nasty in the comments.
My views were in no way extreme nor a minority. It just wasn’t what some people wanted to hear.