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One at Uni, one at work…

937 replies

BelleClapper · 20/05/2021 12:23

How do you square this without causing resentment?

Dd (17) is working full time on an apprenticeship course. We are charging her rent/keep/petrol equivalent to 25% of her take home.

DS (18) up until now was planning to leave college and get a job. He announced yesterday that he is now accepting the three University offers he got a while back. As an aside he’s just split up with his GF of two years who was absolutely definitely in no way the reason he wasn’t going…

So we will be in a position of taking money from DD and sending money to DS. Which has totally changed the dynamic. I’m really conscious of causing resentment from DD who already suffers a bit with middle child syndrome and jealousy.

If you’ve been in this situation what did you do? I want DD to contribute for lots of reasons, none of which go away just because DS now needs three more years of support.

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Am I being unreasonable?

AIBU

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looptheloopinahulahoop · 20/05/2021 13:21

@AlfrescoDining

Do you need to charge DD? I'd stop doing so.

I agree, she's only getting an apprenticeship wage. Or at least, make it a lot less.

The one summer when I had a full time summer job I was earning about £150 a week and my mum took £20 a week. I think something like that would be fair (and much less than 25%).
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Comefromaway · 20/05/2021 13:21

@TwoAndAnOnion

I was stuck on this - I would deem an apprentice to still be in education, and earning a reduced NMW of £4.30. It is actually an accredited apprenticeship or is it on-the-job training? Will there actually be a qualification at the end of it?

At 17, you have to be chipping in, if you are working. I don't care if you are in a low-end job, 17yos don't go in commanding high salaries (despite what some posters think) and household incomes vary. If you need the money to balance the household income then so be it.

On a different thread, the same posters will be telling you you can get married at 16, join up and have the vote in Scotland - but are apparently too young to bear some financial equality.

We (or rather my boss) choose to pay our apprentice more than NWM (because he proved himself worth it).

I've just worked out he's on £13,500 per year
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BelleClapper · 20/05/2021 13:22

@LeilaLiesLow

I don't get your 'logic' here OP.

Your DD could not survive on £12K a year if she had to pay rent, bills, food , transport all on her own ( flat share etc.)

I know a friend whose DD was on that wage for an apprenticeship, living away from home, and they treated it the same as uni and paid her rent for a studio flat and she funded all her other spending.

Your son's loan will depend on your household income. It may meet his needs or you may need to help with housing costs. We paid the rent for both our DCs while they were at uni. They each did science degrees which were full-on 6 days a week in the labs etc, incl evenings, so their holiday jobs were out of term time only.

Your son won't get the equivalent of £12K a year in a loan and he will have to repay it when he works. So compared to your DD who can earn £36K over 3 years he is likely to have a debt of £30K+ in 3 years.

I think you need to accept that you should contribute to his education because your DD is already getting a home, food, transport etc for only £3k a year and has £9K left for 'fun'.

Thank you, it helps to ‘flip it’ like that. She’s much better off.
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Hardbackwriter · 20/05/2021 13:22

People on the thread seem obsessed with the idea that she might feel 'punished' for doing an apprenticeship but the solutions seem to involve actually punishing him for it, as it seems that a lot of people think you should give him less than you otherwise would, and less than the government expects you to, because his sister didn't choose to go to university.

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ForThePurposeOfTheTape · 20/05/2021 13:23

Your child at uni should have a part-time job and be paying 25% of his salary when he's home if he just works holidays. (I assume that he works)

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5128gap · 20/05/2021 13:23

Is your son's course actually going to get him somewhere, rather than just being taken as something to do and an 'experience'/social life for the next 3 years? I ask as it's a sudden change of mind rather than something he planned for.
Fine if it is the latter, but I don't think your daughter should be penalised for getting a job, while your son enjoys deferring adulthood for another 3 years with she and you subsidising him.
Unless the course is very intense and has a clear direction into an occupation, I would be asking him to get a job towards his costs.
I think there are a couple of options with your daughter if you end up subsidising your son. You could stop charging her until she is 21, or you could continue, which is a good life lesson as you say, and save the money up for her.
If you can't afford to do either, then you can't afford to support your son.

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Bluedeblue · 20/05/2021 13:23

This is one situation where you just can't make things equal though.

If you're talking about buying kids cars, then yes, you can make it exactly the same for all, but this isn't like that.

My DS did a 5 year degree and my DD did a 4 year degree. My son was then on JSA for 12 months, living away from home. My DD on the other hand, came home from Uni and straight into a job here (Teacher). So my DS was being sent money for 6 years, and not paying board, as he was not at home, whereas my DD was sent money for 4 years and then was paying us board. It is what it is.

It's certainly ridiculous to let her earn £1000 pm and not pay anything towards her keep. MY DD earns about £28k, and we only charge her £10 per day to cover food. This is because she is saving for a house deposit. I figure £10 more than covers what she consumes, and the other bills would exist whether she was here or not.

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looptheloopinahulahoop · 20/05/2021 13:23

@AOwlAOwlAOwl

Perhaps your DS should get a job and pay some of the shortfall himself, or go to a cheaper university.

There is no such thing as a "cheaper" university - they all charge the same fees, more or less. Some cities are obviously cheaper than others, though.
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PicaK · 20/05/2021 13:24

Think you're absolutely right to charge DD rent.
In this situation I'd be tempted to work out the full cost of her living there - her full share of all bills etc
Then you can show her what you are giving her - difference between that and the amount you do charge her.

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Bluedeblue · 20/05/2021 13:26

I should add as well, that my DS and DD were not always sent equal monthly amounts! At one point my DD's rent was £800pm, whereas my DS's was less than £500pm.

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Lazypuppy · 20/05/2021 13:26

Your DS needs to get himself a job as many students do to put himself through uni. He'll get loansas well

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titchy · 20/05/2021 13:26

How much would a shared room, food, petrol and bills cost her where you are? I assume a lot more than the c£250 a month you're charging. So point out that in fact you ARE financially supporting her - to the tune of £300 a month (or whatever - I'll bet it's a very similar amount to what you'll be supporting ds with).

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BelleClapper · 20/05/2021 13:27

It’s definitely a proper degree with a career progression, it directly leads on from his college course (not A levels) and it was definitely the original plan until the very intense girlfriend situation came along. I’m very glad he’s changed his mind again.

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BelleClapper · 20/05/2021 13:27

@titchy

How much would a shared room, food, petrol and bills cost her where you are? I assume a lot more than the c£250 a month you're charging. So point out that in fact you ARE financially supporting her - to the tune of £300 a month (or whatever - I'll bet it's a very similar amount to what you'll be supporting ds with).

This is a very good point. Thank you.
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sourrain · 20/05/2021 13:28

Student maintenance loans are directly proportionate to parental income. It is the absolute understanding that parent's 'top up' this. However, most parents I know with uni kids don't top it up to the full amount, they consider cost of rent and give a sensible amount towards it. Many DCs contribute at least some towards this as well (even if can't get PT job while studying - which can be hard - many save over the summer before).

With your DD could you not say she's responsible for her own petrol and food - thus taking it out of the 25%, but she also still pays for it herself - and then charge her a rent contribution?

Why don't all of you have a sit down chat and hear everyone's opinions and try to come to some form of agreement? Then everything is out in the open and everyone can make their case. They are two different situations so require two different solutions.

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titchy · 20/05/2021 13:28

@BanningTheWordNaice

Apprenticeships are the same as carrying on with education - in the U.K. we ascribe moral superiority to going to university when often people go and come out with degrees that won’t give them a higher earning potential. I think you should let your daughter know you’re keeping the money aside.

Except apprenticeships are paid. Uni isn't ...
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PaperbackRider · 20/05/2021 13:28

I might be overthinking. There was a lot of inequality between me and my siblings (house deposits, first cars etc, I had none of those) and I’m a bit over sensitive to it

You're not overthinking and if that was your experience, I can't imagine why you are doing the same to your DD.

As far as she can see, you are taking money from her and giving it to her older brother. She's 17, she's still a child. It's not ok to charge her petrol money, fgs!

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doublehalo · 20/05/2021 13:29

Sounds like you're asking your daughter to pay quite a lot from her wages at a very young age.

I worked for someone who did this to their kids, but was saving all that money and gave it back to the kid when they finally left home to rent or buy. I thought this was a brilliant way of supporting the kids and teaching them at the same time.

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Zebracat · 20/05/2021 13:29

I have been in this situation. I charged rent, but saved it and presented it when they were looking to move out. They were thrilled. I’d definitely do that again. Of course that depends on you being able to afford to do that.
We now have an adult son at home on a good wage.we are charging him more, and intending to give half of that back to him., when he moves on.

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sourrain · 20/05/2021 13:30

I say that assuming that by 'petrol' you mean petrol she uses driving herself about

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Comefromaway · 20/05/2021 13:30

To put these amounts into context. Dd spent two years lodging with a family. She paid £120 per week (it included breakfast and evening meal). OP is charging her dd a fraction of that amount and her dd is earning a good wage for her age.

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BelleClapper · 20/05/2021 13:30

@PaperbackRider

I might be overthinking. There was a lot of inequality between me and my siblings (house deposits, first cars etc, I had none of those) and I’m a bit over sensitive to it

You're not overthinking and if that was your experience, I can't imagine why you are doing the same to your DD.

As far as she can see, you are taking money from her and giving it to her older brother. She's 17, she's still a child. It's not ok to charge her petrol money, fgs!

Sorry, you think we should drive her to and from work, 10hrs driving each week, so she can earn money, and not charge her for petrol?

Confused
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UrAWizHarry · 20/05/2021 13:31

As long as you are treating both kids fairly and supporting their decisions, that is the best you can do. What money the son gets is nothing to do with the daughter.

12k a year - even if 25% of that goes to the parents - is way above a normal level of disposable income at that age. Presumably she made her choice to go down that path and so just because a sibling decides to go down a different path that should not have any impact on her whatsoever.

DS will need support to go to university and it's all very well saying he needs to get a job, but COVID has driven up unemployment and reduced the number of casual jobs out there so you can't can't on that. If his loans etc require topping up than that is what needs to happen and that has nothing to do with DD.

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PaperbackRider · 20/05/2021 13:31

I think you should either do it because you want to, or not do it at all.
But to drive her and charge her for it while funding her brother through 3-4 years at university...are you literally trying to make them have a bad relationship for life?

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JamesAnderson · 20/05/2021 13:32

@PicaK

Think you're absolutely right to charge DD rent.
In this situation I'd be tempted to work out the full cost of her living there - her full share of all bills etc
Then you can show her what you are giving her - difference between that and the amount you do charge her.

I agree with this. It may well be that you're "giving" her more than you're "giving" ds
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