One at Uni, one at work…

[BelleClapper]

How do you square this without causing resentment?

Dd (17) is working full time on an apprenticeship course. We are charging her rent/keep/petrol equivalent to 25% of her take home.

DS (18) up until now was planning to leave college and get a job. He announced yesterday that he is now accepting the three University offers he got a while back. As an aside he’s just split up with his GF of two years who was absolutely definitely in no way the reason he wasn’t going…

So we will be in a position of taking money from DD and sending money to DS. Which has totally changed the dynamic. I’m really conscious of causing resentment from DD who already suffers a bit with middle child syndrome and jealousy.

If you’ve been in this situation what did you do? I want DD to contribute for lots of reasons, none of which go away just because DS now needs three more years of support.

My parents put the rent I gave them away for a deposit on my first house.

not really understanding the aggressive responses from you OP.

you have had some people that have been way off the mark but you did ask how to square it - some people have said they think it's unfair. no idea what you thought was going to happen when you posted but generally this sort of topic is going to create a debate because people see it very differently as you've seen.

What an interesting thread, and I am not surprised it is one that has divided people's opinions - it can really touch peoples experiences of what is fair/unfair.

I can relate to your original dilemma about overthinking based on personal experience. In my case it was my father who had the experience of unfairness between him and his siblings - he attributed it to long standing rifts long after their parents were gone. He was always very vocal on the idea that he wanted everything to be absolutely fair when it came to me and my siblings. Problem was how to do fair when children follow different paths? We were all raised with the idea that as soon as you earned you contributed - either by taking over more of your own expenses (paying fares; putting petrol in the car when you used it; paying for clothes etc) if we earned a living wage - then we also paid 'keep' not a vast amount but a contribution to food and living expenses. My parents were at a point in their life where they weren't wealthy but they weren't hard up either, they probably did put it away with the intention of giving it back when needed.

However as our lives went on I watched by father battling to make things fair. Helping your kids out doesn't tend to end when they leave education. We all chose different paths some straight into work and paying, some into Uni; some got grants others didn't - that's about different opportunities at different times. Some of us had children some of us didn't - the ones with children probably got more support for the grandchildren is that fair or unfair on the ones who didn't have children?

Where the fairness dilemma got really tough was leaving inheritance. My parents loved their house and didnt want to sell it - they therefore left it to the eldest and attempted to provide the same in cash to the rest. That was fathers desperate attempt to make it fair and he really struggled to come up with the cash to do that. In the end - it didnt really work as after their deaths there was a massive property surge and the eldest ended up receiving 3 X what the rest of us received. Fortunately we did not fall apart in sudden experience of unfairness because we knew the intent was always to be fair - and we had worked out everyone's needs and circumstances will be different depending on choices, opportunities and a sometimes luck.

Most of us see ourselves supporting our children for as long as we are around - so the idea that every time you give to one you will find a way to match the offer to another could burden you with a difficult balancing act. I would aim to let your children know your goal is to help them all as equally as you can but connected to their individual choices and needs. You cannot always level the ground forever and I am sure they understand that.

I still don’t think I’d charge a 17 year old “keep”, unless I was desperate for the money. But it’s an age thing; nothing to do with apprenticeship vs uni.

Paying their own work and personal expenses, obviously fine. But share of rent, household bills (that aren’t for them specifically) and food eaten with the rest of the household, no.

I’d probably say that as long as she was saving X% of her wage, I wouldn’t charge keep until she would normally have finished A Levels, but after that charge along the lines you’re doing.

I would take the money off her and explain it’s to get her used to the real world of bills lol. How we I’d save it all and then give it to her when she wants to get a car or put towards a property.

Save some money for your daughter so that when it is her time to fly the nest, she will have a net egg to help her.

@BelleClapper

Jesus fucking wept.

I’m not taking money from DD to give to DS. She has already been paying keep. DS has just (two days ago!) decided to pursue university as opposed to any other route.

We are expecting that he will work his way through, but are realistic about this. I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but the global pandemic has had a bit of a knock on effect with hospitality/retail etc.

‘Nobody offers apprenticeships in waitressing’ well your mind would be blown by my course then.

You're the one who used the EXACT sentence in your OP. "....So we will be in a position of taking money from DD and sending money to DS".

At the end of the day OP it's your decision - but you've been very aggressive towards posters who do not agree with you. Your question is whether, in your daughter's perception, you are being unfair.

PP have argued that yes, you see unfair, because you are taking money from your daughter, that you don't' need, just to teach her about 'real life'. Not saving it up for her (which would have the same effect), but taking it because you want it. And your reasoning was that you have a 'mortgage to pay' which doesn't change with her presence there.

Meanwhile you are choosing to fund your son's choice in university. Nobody is arguing this point but in real terms, your daughter is costing less than you son.So yes, from your daughter's POV, you are spending less on her.

Now, you have specified that you spend a lot of effort on your daughter (including driving her 2 hours every day) etc. Maybe in your eyes that equalizes it. But in that case there's no reason for your daughter to feel jealous is there? If you have spoken to her and she is fine there is no problem, hence no post.

You've already made up your mind and posted for validation, but I feel sorry for your daughter...

Also @BelleClapper for the record if your course is something like hospitality or event management - I'm aware that those exist. I worked as as waitress (and did various other odd jobs) throughout my time at uni.

Nobody is saying that you shouldn't help your son.
But you are being unfair to take money from your daughter to take money for household bills , when you are not struggling. Because what she costs you in bills is less than her brother at uni. By all means make her pay for takeaways, toiletries etc but at the end her choice to get a job means she costs you less. Her brother's choice to go to uni means he gets money from you - and if you're going to be giving him enough to have the same spending money as his sister (who worked for it) then you're essentially paying for your son's lifestyle but not your daughter's. In 3 years your son maybe have student loans but will be earning far more than her, exacerbating this.

I think be open and discuss with both. Make it clear that you are supporting DS, but as soon as at work he would need to contribute 25%.
We do the same - in fact take more - 3/7 of DD17 apprentice wages. (But she knows we are investing it for her first home)
Make sure DD knows you would have supported her through Uni (or potentially in the future if she changed mind)
I personally think it’s irresponsible to not charge adult working adult children housekeeping/rent etc.

Wouldn't concern me at all. Both in education but one earning a handsome wage for an apprentice and the other earning an impressive debt which still doesn't cover living. I would call it as it is. Presumably DD could go to uni if she chose? She chose to earn as she learned.

@Planty13 Hits the nail on the head. DS is paying for sons top up fees. I’d be really peeved and resentful!

Maybe DD pays for own phone, some driving lessons and small contribution by paying for shopping every now and again or a meal out would be fairer. Definitely encourage some saving.
Son can get job ! PT or seasonal. I always had to work through the holidays when I was a student when richer friends went travelling.
Also, some courses are only 9/10 hrs per week lectures! Worth checking if they say need time to study and have fun.

I think you are losing the bigger, long-term picture here. I am surprised by the comments of those saying 'she is working, he is not'. That is very much based on the current situation, not taking the future into account.

They are both in a learning process. If she had a 'proper' job, she would likely earn more than 12k (and 9k now in practice). Moreover, once DS is done, he will have much larger earning potential than she had. My post-uni starting salary was more than double your daughter's (and I studied languages, so no high earning subject as such). There is no way she will have more than doubled her wages in three years from now, which is where your son would be. His starting salary will be higher, he will have graduate schemes to take advantage of, etc. Even if he has to pay off debts, you know that if he, for some unforeseen reason, didn't have the earning capacity, they would be waived.

You should ensure that it is fair over all. You are essentially punishing your DD for her life choices here. If she were to go to uni, things would be different. What you now see as her 'advantage' over hime, is actually a long term disadvantage. People with uni degrees do tend to out-earn those without in general. (Yes, there are exceptions, but we are talking in general, here, not Bill Gates or so).

Instead of charging her, you could help your daughter save for a housing deposit, which would help her have a good start in life. She will likely struggle much more than DS to secure a first home on a lower overall salary. So yes, charging her (unless you are saving that secretly up for a deposit for her) is unreasonable.

If you are so keen on her not getting used to having an entire salary to spend each month, why don't you save the money you take from her each month instead which will help her save towards her first flat deposit or a car etc?

Save the money for her ✅

Have DS get a pt job ✅

Cancel the cheque ✅

@UrAWizHarry

Have to laugh at all the posters saying "oh, he can just get a job".

Wonder where they think all these jobs are given COVID has decimated retail and hospitality.

Indeed!

I have one at university and one in sixth form. Alongside sixth form she also has a full time job.

We have a rule that all the time you're in full time education ( apprenticeship included ) you don't have to pay rent but, the moment you leave education and work you will be paying rent.

So, at the moment, DD2 doesn't pay rent, even though she is also working full time, as she's in full time education. DD1 doesn't pay us rent as 1, she's hardly here and 2, she pays rent for her accomodation at uni.

We don't give DD1 money as she doesn't need us to. She pays for everything she wants now, clothes, fun stuff, car insurance, her petrol etc.

I occasionally send DD1 money - usually at the time she's due her maintenance loan - but it's rare. She also pays for her car insurance, petrol, clothes etc as she has a part time job when she's home I. The holidays.

@BelleClapper

It’s a software engineering degree. Not a mickey mouse degree.

And DD is doing Early Years Education at a nursery.

I’m surprised she’s earning that much as a nursery assistant apprentice.

Also, you need a bachelor’s degree (2:1 or above) in any subject and then a 1 year PGCE with QTS to become a primary school teacher. Or a 3 year BEd.

I've been in your shoes. DS2 paid 25% of his apprenticeship wage with DS1 at University. DS1 wasn't given any money for uni, there 5 years, he applied for burseries etc. When he was home he did chores in lieu of being home.

Charging a 17 year old rent? She's still a child - your child. I would still feel a duty to feed and house her at least until the apprenticeship is over.

I would try to convince her to put at least 25% of her take home away in savings, and she should pay for her own phone and entertainment. But I would not charge my child for their room and board, especially while they are still training and even more especially one who is under 18.

@Localocal

Charging a 17 year old rent? She's still a child - your child. I would still feel a duty to feed and house her at least until the apprenticeship is over.

I would try to convince her to put at least 25% of her take home away in savings, and she should pay for her own phone and entertainment. But I would not charge my child for their room and board, especially while they are still training and even more especially one who is under 18.

I agree.

You say you're separating the two arrangements in your mind. That's exactly right. They are separate. You'd already sorted the arrangement with DD before her DB changed his plans and his decision doesn't affect it at all. She is getting an exceptionally good deal from you, especially with all that driving, of which she is only in the car for half, so possibly hasn't realised what a commitment it is.

If she grumbles, and I don't think she will if she's as smart as she sounds, you could just offer to release her from the agreement and let her find - and fund - her own accommodation, shopping, bills and transport! Of course DS's costs are going to be higher because he isn't having utilities, groceries etc covered by you every month!

Well done to both of them for securing their futures and to you for supporting both of them, because you are. If you decide to save your Dad's board each month to give back to her as a lump later, your are spot on to say you won:t tell her that now. She might want to borrow from it or you might need to dip into it. Best keep it dark, as a possible nice surprise later.

And remember, the deal you have with him is none of her business and vice versa. 😉