One at Uni, one at work…

[BelleClapper]

How do you square this without causing resentment?

Dd (17) is working full time on an apprenticeship course. We are charging her rent/keep/petrol equivalent to 25% of her take home.

DS (18) up until now was planning to leave college and get a job. He announced yesterday that he is now accepting the three University offers he got a while back. As an aside he’s just split up with his GF of two years who was absolutely definitely in no way the reason he wasn’t going…

So we will be in a position of taking money from DD and sending money to DS. Which has totally changed the dynamic. I’m really conscious of causing resentment from DD who already suffers a bit with middle child syndrome and jealousy.

If you’ve been in this situation what did you do? I want DD to contribute for lots of reasons, none of which go away just because DS now needs three more years of support.

@SnarkyBag

An apprenticeship wage at that age is very very low and I’d consider her still in a form of education. I think funding one at uni whilst taking money off a low wage apprentice is pretty shit frankly.

Very Shit, I would never do that to my DC

Anyway I’d better go and unchain DD from the basement so she can sweep the hearth.

Or pick her and her boyfriend up from town and bring them home for a takeaway. I get so confused.

@Fieldsofstars

‘ He’s mid twenties and has just bought a flat. But wait, surely he’s still in education and should have been living at home rent free?’

Well according to your standards you’d be sending him money because he’s at university level. 🙄

NO! You don’t understand.

If the OP’s son was entitled to a full student loan, or was doing a paid degree apprenticeship on £23k then she would absolutely not be sending him money.

But, rightly or wrongly the government has decided to assess the OPs sons entitlement on her income and expects her to make up the difference.

It’s not his fault they have a family income too high to make him eligible for full student finance.

Students up and down the country whose parents earn over £25k have money sent to them.

I’m honestly a bit agog at that post.

As though I’m showering DS with gifts of free money simply because he’s going to University, rather than, y’know, helping with luxuries like food and rent because he’ll be away from home.

Our rule is while you’re a student, whatever pt job they have is theirs. Once they’re working, we would expect to see a contribution towards their upkeep. Some of it, we'll put away as savings for them in the future should they wish to buy a big ticket item or a house deposit. But we feel it’s important they don’t just freeload off parents, otherwise they’ll be adult babies forever. Your middle child is still earning money and is far better off even contributing 25% than living in a flat share. But while they’re in ft education, they shouldn’t contribute. Was it their decision to get apprenticeship rather than uni?

Apprenticeships are not full time education.

And yes DD wanted to do the apprenticeship rather than continue with A levels that she was failing/hating.

@Hardbackwriter Whilst i do take your point, Yes, we take financial discussions and education as a family very seriously. The youngest didn’t want to go private because of the cost initially, so we decided to disclose more details of the family circumstances and she raised the unfairness of the elder one not having had that opportunity and we addressed that by assuring that we would equalise the financial aspect. 11 years old was a bit young for such discussions in my opinion but by her raising the concern over cost and inequality, we felt we had no choice but to have it.

Ultimately it’s not the money that matters, we believe in experiences rather than stuff, minimalism if you like, but fair treatment is important and sometimes that does have a monetary value.

In the end, both kids will be treated fairly, openly, transparently, and in the end it’s likely they will inherit the responsibility for larger amounts of money, provided they are able to demonstrate financial responsibility as they grow up into adults and have their own families.

@zaffa

I'd save the money she gives you and give it to her when she is ready to move out as a best egg she has built up, and add in an equal amount of the same value that you are sending to DS to ensure it is fair.

I agree with this. It’s what I would do.

@misselphaba

25% seems harsh. I don't know how I'd feel if I was in her shoes. I'd expect DB to get a job and pay his own rent for a start.

I know I'm talking about 35 years ago but when I left school and started a 'Youth Training Scheme' (the 80's equivalent of today's apprenticeships, I was earning £26.25 a week with £6.25 going to pay for my bus pass. My mother insisted on 60٪ of my pay for board and lodgings, PLUS I had to give my younger sister who was still at school £3.00 a week pocket money, leaving me a massive £5.00 to spend on myself and even then, in the mid-80's that didn't pay for much at all.

So, 25% of the OP's daughter's pay is only about £58 a week. Once our kids start earning they have to learn that a roof over their heads, utilities, WiFi, food etc ISN'T FREE, so unless they can afford to move out of mummy and daddy's place and go it alone, they have to at least contribute financially.

I can't see any reason why the OP's soon can't get a job whilst at uni to help pay the shortfall of his living expenses, not all parents can afford to subsidise kids going to uni.

It does seem a bit unfair that one child is paying for board and lodgings whilst the other is able to still be having these costs covered by mummy and daddy. I don't have a miraculous solution to offer other than suggesting that the OP consists paying a proportion of her son's rent and telling him he needs to work a p/t job to cover the rest of his living expenses.

We had (our older son) resident whilst working - barman so not well paid - whilst his younger brother was at university.

Maximum loans were not sufficient so we paid younger son's rent for 4 years, whilst working son paid a small amount of rent to us, which we saved for him.
Have never thought that arrangement to be unfair!

Sorry, meant your child at uni in ft education. Yes, I would ask for a contribution. She is working and earning a salary. Young adults need to realise that wages aren’t just for spending money-can’t understand endless funding of children. She has a good arrangement at home as it would cost her far more living independently. A Ft uni student, I wouldn’t charge and would expect to contribute to their upkeep if their student loan isn’t enough. It’s the same as being at school.

Apprenticeships are not full time education.

Most apprenticeships are classed as full time education and if you’re in England then your DD will need to be in full time education until she’s 18 so hers would be classed as such.

@Subbaxeo

Sorry, meant your child at uni in ft education. Yes, I would ask for a contribution. She is working and earning a salary. Young adults need to realise that wages aren’t just for spending money-can’t understand endless funding of children. She has a good arrangement at home as it would cost her far more living independently. A Ft uni student, I wouldn’t charge and would expect to contribute to their upkeep if their student loan isn’t enough. It’s the same as being at school.

Oh yes, sorry I think I misread. Apologies.

@toocold54

Apprenticeships are not full time education.

Most apprenticeships are classed as full time education and if you’re in England then your DD will need to be in full time education until she’s 18 so hers would be classed as such.

Not according to ucas.

When I had a job at 19, my older brother of 20 was also working, as was my younger brother of 17. I was the only one who paid board on a regular basis...I was earning £6K a year, taking home about £400 a month and my parents took £100 a month from me.

That was 30 years ago and I still feel pissed off about it. My older brother in particular was earning about £30K a year at the time (he was a computer games designer, got into the industry before he'd even left school), was given driving lessons when he turned 17 and I wasn't the next year when I did. Neither of my brothers were ever expected to do any housework, I was...I could go on, there were plenty more examples of how sexist my parents were.

I don't know what the answer is, tbh.

@noirchatsdeux

When I had a job at 19, my older brother of 20 was also working, as was my younger brother of 17. I was the only one who paid board on a regular basis...I was earning £6K a year, taking home about £400 a month and my parents took £100 a month from me.

That was 30 years ago and I still feel pissed off about it. My older brother in particular was earning about £30K a year at the time (he was a computer games designer, got into the industry before he'd even left school), was given driving lessons when he turned 17 and I wasn't the next year when I did. Neither of my brothers were ever expected to do any housework, I was...I could go on, there were plenty more examples of how sexist my parents were.

I don't know what the answer is, tbh.

That was awful but has absolutely zero in common with the situation here.

I don't have a miraculous solution to offer other than suggesting that the OP consists paying a proportion of her son's rent and telling him he needs to work a p/t job to cover the rest of his living expenses.

I think this would be a good compromise.
DS gets a job and pays for luxuries whilst OP pays for rent. And DD pays for her luxuries like phone, petrol etc but OP pays for rent. So she’s still paying but paying less and DS is also having to pay his way too.

Children have to be in education or training until they are 18.
If she wasn't doing an apprenticeship, she'd need to be doing other training or a college course such as BTECs or A Levels.

Apprenticeships are work and training blended and one of their major strengths is appealing to students who want to learn in a hands on environment instead of having 2 more years in the classroom. They are 'essentially' a full time job because the hours are comparable and there is a wage involved, but crucially they are a training route, not a bog standard job like any other adult job.

It's still very much the case that CHILDREN under 18 are required to be in education or training, even if some routes attract a wage.

You're clearly happy with your choices OP, but you're continued insistence that a minor has a cushty life and should pay to live at home isn't likely to change anyone's mind if they think it's wrong for parents to charge minors to live at home.

I think that charging 25% of the child getting a wage is both reasonable and healthy. As for the son going to Uni, perhaps he needs to get a job, my daughter worked her way all through Uni as we didn't have enough money to contribute. Her least favourite was gutting chickens so not a nice job, but it paid the bills and helped her to develop a fantastic work ethic.

When I graduated uni I got a supermarket job and paid my mum £200 a month rent. I needed lifts to a volunteer job I had, she did that without charging me any petrol. My mum was a single parent and absolutely skint so I insisted on paying this £200 and she agreed it was sensible.

I understand why you are charging her.

However, to then post money off to son to help him is the problem. I didn't get any help from parents at uni, me and my sisters just got into debt. If you NEED the £250 to pay bills, I'd agree. If you are sending any money to your son, that is the problem.

I was the middle child in this scenario. I didn’t go to uni but both my siblings did. My parents gave my siblings enough money so that they didn’t need to work through uni and left with only minor debts. My parents charged me rent and bills to live with them.

I think that was fair. I had the option to go to uni but I wanted to take another path. They would have paid for me to go, the same as my siblings, but it was my choice not to take them up on that offer.

And they didn’t save my contributions to the household to give back to me at a later date. That was also fair.

He can get a job! No reason not to. My middle DS is still at home and working. He spends 4 nights a week at his GFs. He doesn't cost me anything and never asks for anything so we don't charge him anything

Apprentices have to pay full price dentist (£64 for a check up) prescription charges, travel costs. They don’t get student discount or reduced entry. My middle child is an apprentice - earns a pittance. I don’t charge her rent but she voluntarily does a shop, cooks the dinner etc. Eldest is at university and self supporting. We gave a head start of a few grand in first year to cover time to find a job.