To think it’s so wrong that if you have money you can jump NHS waiting lists?

[ImaHogg]

I have some gynae issues. I had a scan in September 2020 and a telephone consultation with a gynaecologist. I was told that I need a hysteroscopy with a biopsy and to remove some polyps.
Obviously due to Covid I, alongside so many others am now on a waiting list. I (and my gp) have chased many times but just get told they have absolutely no idea when my procedure will be.
I am getting problems from the issues I have and have had enough so rang my local private hospital to ask if they do this procedure (can not really afford to go private but I am getting desperate and wanted to know how much it may be). I was told they don’t do this procedure at this hospital but there may be an ‘alternative’! They would talk to the gynaecologist and get back to me.
They rung back to say they had spoken with the gynaecologist and he would be happy for me to have a consultation at the private hospital (£150) then I would need an ultra sound scan (I would have to have this done at the private hospital even though I have a copy of the NHS one from September, same gynaecologist), then he would be able to do the hysteroscopy but at my local NHS hospital - wtf!!
So basically for a fee of £2000 I can skip the NHS waiting list, skip the luxury surroundings of the private hospital and have the same procedure at the same NHS hospital that I have currently been on a 8 month waiting list.
So if you have money you can push back NHS waiting lists even further by flashing the cash!

Private medical is basically skipping the que

Private healthcare waiting lists have grown . Consultant 4 weeks, then another month to have cat scan or MRI. Interestingly the cat scan and MRI is mobile a pantechnicon. Talking to the staff in the vans they cover a huge patch Wales and North West. They're in Yorkshire one day Wrexham the next much better use of equipment in my opinion. Our health board let ours gather dust for financial reasons

Depends what and where. DP saw the GP this Thursday for an orthopaedic problem. Saw consultant yesterday and has an MRI tomorrow, Sunday, morning. I imagine based upon that he will get the results some point this week, probably and phonecall and any treatment needed within the next couple of weeks

I did this, had tonsils out - via public the wait was 2 years, via private I was told I could have the surgery next day.

Staying at private hospital was amazing as well, the 7 page food menu! I didn't want to leave.

I know it's not fair but that's just how life is I guess 😕

I live in Australia and there is even a private A&e! You pay $300 per visit, I haven't been,
But can imagine the kind of level or treatment you'd get

Private healthcare benefits the rich. The Tories are in power, and intent on privatizing the NHS (more $$ for them and their mates). So the die is cast. You may not agree, but the NHS will be a shell of its former self in 10 years. Some would argue it is already.
And the poor will suffer for it.

@RandomLondoner

Actually I think the OP could be right about this. I think it is possible to get NHS treatment sooner by having a private consultation (instead of an NHS one) prior to the treatment.

The consultation is a necessary step in the treatment pathway, so you have taken some pressure of the NHS by having that privately.

As OP is talking about paying £2000 for a fairly simple procedure, I don't think it is 'on the NHS', it is just in NHS premises based on some hiring arrangement. I remember when I had my wisdom teeth out in an NHS hospital in the late 1980s on a Friday afternoon, the next morning 'private patients' were coming in to the same ward as I was being discharged from, for cosmetic surgery. Also decades ago, it was possible to pay for a private consultation and then the Consultant (who also worked in the NHS) having realised how serious your issues (eg cancer) were, would legitimately put you in an appropriate place on the NHS waiting list...if you had serious symptoms, you would be much higher up the list than if you had waited in the NHS queue to be seen to be evaluated. It would be unethical to leave someone low down the NHS list, once you knew the severity of their illness. A society is not free if people cannot choose to pay for services when the state offering lets them down as the NHS currently all too often does with the ridiculously long waiting lists. Peoples lives are put on hold/involve unnecessary suffering; and it is not surprising therefore that an increasing number of people are choosing to pay privately for procedures (if they can) even without insurance. There is also the fact that many ailments get worse the longer you leave them. People always say it is a funding issue but it currently seems more to be a lack of qualified staff issue, given all the unfilled clinical posts in the NHS....roles available and no one applies for them. It's crazy really that hospital facilities are not run 24 hours a day - why should an operating theatre stand empty overnight? You'd need even more staff though. Why can you be admitted at weekend and essential tests are not done till Monday? It's bonkers.

It is not true that wealthier people don't have to worry about the state of the NHS. If you are in an accident, there is no private A&E available so everyone has a stake in the state system being of high quality. Also the private sector only tends to do the easy elective surgery stuff...it will never meet all your needs.

No. You get taken off the list, someone moves up…

I think some of the vets should go and work for the NHS. For a dog you can usually get bloodwork and an ultrasound done and a diagnosis within 24 hours.
How long in the NHS? 12 weeks?

The mix of private and NHS resources is standard practice. On certain days, usually a Saturday, my local Bupa clinic rents portable imaging equipment from the NHS. I have been having problems with both shoulders for some months now. On the NHS I got a telephone appointment with a physiotherapist and a link to view exercises. It's not improved and I'm now considering going private for an MRI.

@ImaHogg

For clarification, I enquired at the private hospital as that is where I thought I would have the procedure, I never thought for a second it would be at an NHS hospital. Surely if I were to pay privately and then go to my local NHS hospital that is taking the time slot of someone who could be an NHS patient?

No it doesn’t work like that. Every department has a budget which limits the number of procedures they can carry out on the NHS. Paying privately means the NHS hospital will get some of your fee for use of its facilities, and there will be one less person on the waiting list, enabling another person to join the list for NHS treatment.

@Malteser71

My DH is a consultant in the NHS.

He also does private work on his days off. He is flooded with requests for private work. He could quite happily and legitimately leave the NHS and work his whole week in the local private hospital.

The NHS does not own him or his skills. He chooses to work for them.

I think some posters completely fail to understand this. Perhaps we should be happy and relieved that consultants are still happy to work for the NHS rather than carping about restricting where they can work.

You're right, the NHS doesn't own him, but if he trained in this country, then thousands have been spent on his education, mentoring, practical teaching and support, etc. Seven years of training isn'r cheap. Most of us feel a moral obligation to give some time back to NHS after qualifying, even if in reality, no we don't actually owe it anything. And Labourcrealised the NHS was going to be too expensive 2 years after it was launched, hence introducing dental and prescription charges in 1950. It will never be appropriately funded because it was never aviable option economically. I agree, there are ridiculous points of waste, but this is a result of sucessive governments trying to 'save' money, by rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic, and changing policies, processes and training of staff.

OP even though you would be having the proceedure at an nhs hospital , part of the fee for it would go to the nhs for the service being provided. So for eg your consultant might end up getting paid £500 and the remainder goes (itemised) to a variety of other departments. This is pretty standard practice and is a major source of additional funding for the nhs without which there would be even less cash to provide nhs treatment.

This practice is common. Do the surgeons who add a couple of fee payers onto their NHS operating schedule pay for this? Does the NHS get any money out of it? I suspect not. Glad to be corrected though.

@ImaHogg

For clarification, I enquired at the private hospital as that is where I thought I would have the procedure, I never thought for a second it would be at an NHS hospital. Surely if I were to pay privately and then go to my local NHS hospital that is taking the time slot of someone who could be an NHS patient?

The NHS sells slots for private patients, its a vital source of income.

It works the other way too. The NHS pays private hospitals to treat patients on the NHS waiting list in procedures that can be done in the private hospital. So you could be treated by the NHS in a private hospital.

I am surprised to hear that by having the consultation privately you can jump up the nhs list. This is wrong and it never used to be like this. I agree with others this is a back door way if privatising the NHS. I also agree that no amount of money will fix it so something needs to change, as usual the government kicks the tricky decisions can down the road and takes the easy route.

I don't blame the consultants they pay for their qualifications and are free to do what they want, they are running a business.

Private hospitals don't always have the facilities needed to do the procedures required, so they pay the NHS to let them use their facilities. It's money the NHS needs.

@Noisyprat

I am surprised to hear that by having the consultation privately you can jump up the nhs list. This is wrong and it never used to be like this. I agree with others this is a back door way if privatising the NHS. I also agree that no amount of money will fix it so something needs to change, as usual the government kicks the tricky decisions can down the road and takes the easy route.

I don't blame the consultants they pay for their qualifications and are free to do what they want, they are running a business.

It was like this 20 years ago, I was offered an op on a Friday night or to be popped on the consultant's list and have my op within a couple of weeks - I chose neither, I didn't agree that I needed surgery - my symptoms were very mild, my GP didn't understand why I needed surgery either, the consultant refused to discuss it, so I left it. The sad thing is other women who really needed that op have had to wait years.

I think its dreadful and a clear conflict of interest - most professionals cannot take work that conflicts with their primary role yet there is a clear incentive financially for NHS consultants not to do anything to reduce NHS waiting lists as they can "encourage" patients to be seen privately.

This is clearly happening to my DP who has a metal plate in his wrist which has slipped which is causing so much swelling and pain he has lost most of the function of that hand and wrist. Its a straightforward operation to remove it. The NHS isn't interested so he had a private consultation. The consultant took one look at his car key fob and offered to book him there and then privately.

Don't get me started on the people who claim that the UK has the least funded/cheapest healthcare system in Europe - that doesn't take into account all the people paying twice - once through tax and then again to go privately!

And don't assume that people who go privately are "rich" - many of them are desperate people in agony re-mortgaging or using life savings to afford a health service they have already spent a lifetime paying for in tax.

I think the NHS is a dreadful system of healthcare but permitting a conflict of interest where surgeons use NHS hospitals to do private work one day per week is making it worse. Dreadful, dreadful system. Why can't we have something like the French system. Or the Dutch. Or the German. Or the Belgian. etc. etc..

@JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn

Private hospitals don't always have the facilities needed to do the procedures required, so they pay the NHS to let them use their facilities. It's money the NHS needs.

The main reason that the private sector is so under-developed in this country is due to the existence of the state monopoly of the NHS.

Just to clarify, are we still clapping NHS staff? Or do we only clap their NHS hours and then scream at them for being hideous Tories on their private days?

Also, I assume all those "overworked" NHS doctors could just cut down on some private work next time they cry about being exhausted.

The NHS is a bloated dinosaur. Until people in this country are grown up enough to have a proper conversation about how to have reformed healthcare system then we will all continue to suffer.

@ImaHogg

I have some gynae issues. I had a scan in September 2020 and a telephone consultation with a gynaecologist. I was told that I need a hysteroscopy with a biopsy and to remove some polyps. Obviously due to Covid I, alongside so many others am now on a waiting list. I (and my gp) have chased many times but just get told they have absolutely no idea when my procedure will be. I am getting problems from the issues I have and have had enough so rang my local private hospital to ask if they do this procedure (can not really afford to go private but I am getting desperate and wanted to know how much it may be). I was told they don’t do this procedure at this hospital but there may be an ‘alternative’! They would talk to the gynaecologist and get back to me. They rung back to say they had spoken with the gynaecologist and he would be happy for me to have a consultation at the private hospital (£150) then I would need an ultra sound scan (I would have to have this done at the private hospital even though I have a copy of the NHS one from September, same gynaecologist), then he would be able to do the hysteroscopy but at my local NHS hospital - wtf!! So basically for a fee of £2000 I can skip the NHS waiting list, skip the luxury surroundings of the private hospital and have the same procedure at the same NHS hospital that I have currently been on a 8 month waiting list. So if you have money you can push back NHS waiting lists even further by flashing the cash!

Irrelevant to you I know, but astonished at the waiting time differences around the country.

I had the exact same issues as you, same treatment, but my wait time was 7 weeks. Essex.

@Rachie1973 my DD has just been told 3 years for a wisdom tooth removal in Glasgow!

[quote Andouillette]@Rachie1973 my DD has just been told 3 years for a wisdom tooth removal in Glasgow![/quote]
If she is in pain with it, that is ridiculous. Could she not get it done under local anaesthetic outside a hospital environment?