To think it’s so wrong that if you have money you can jump NHS waiting lists?

[ImaHogg]

I have some gynae issues. I had a scan in September 2020 and a telephone consultation with a gynaecologist. I was told that I need a hysteroscopy with a biopsy and to remove some polyps.
Obviously due to Covid I, alongside so many others am now on a waiting list. I (and my gp) have chased many times but just get told they have absolutely no idea when my procedure will be.
I am getting problems from the issues I have and have had enough so rang my local private hospital to ask if they do this procedure (can not really afford to go private but I am getting desperate and wanted to know how much it may be). I was told they don’t do this procedure at this hospital but there may be an ‘alternative’! They would talk to the gynaecologist and get back to me.
They rung back to say they had spoken with the gynaecologist and he would be happy for me to have a consultation at the private hospital (£150) then I would need an ultra sound scan (I would have to have this done at the private hospital even though I have a copy of the NHS one from September, same gynaecologist), then he would be able to do the hysteroscopy but at my local NHS hospital - wtf!!
So basically for a fee of £2000 I can skip the NHS waiting list, skip the luxury surroundings of the private hospital and have the same procedure at the same NHS hospital that I have currently been on a 8 month waiting list.
So if you have money you can push back NHS waiting lists even further by flashing the cash!

I think it's wrong that NHS waiting lists are so long that people are desperate. DD has been waiting for medical treatment for the last 18 months. She is literally surviving through a day at a time as in so much pain. I don't even have the option to pay for private treatment as no one round here is seeing children privately. But if I had the option I would be remortgaging the house and selling everything we have. I it's wrong not to want to see a child in constant pain, then I am a terrible person.

@Aprilx

No you cannot jump the NHS waiting list, you can go private. It shortens the NHS waiting list for others.

Exactly this.

@NoSquirrels

Most consultants in the NHS also see private patients alongside, for a fee. You would be paying for the operation as a private patient - you’d no longer be on the NHS waiting list. Isn’t that what you expected when you rang to go private?

I think lots of people are misunderstanding. If you pay for a private consultation, the consultant can then bump you up their NHS list so you’re not paying for the surgery, only the consultation and any tests needed beforehand.

I think (I may be wrong) that you can sometimes also get around NHS treatment delays by having treatment privately and having the cost charged back to the NHS. (Read this on the web-site that was representing a bunch of private hospitals.)

(Presumably the NHS only reimburses the private hospital the amount you're deemed to have saved them.)

And you definitely can jump the list.

When we were waiting months to see an opthalmologist on the NHS for our son and he developed worrying symptoms, I contacted a private consultant as I was worried.

He called me and said that it would be best for him to be seen in the NHS but he moved my son to his NHS list and fitted him in the following week. That wasn’t my intention but that’s what happened - good job I did and he did as he needed an urgent MRI.

@NoSquirrels

We could all pay more taxes and stop bloody voting Tory as a country and then the NHS might have a fighting chance. Most people don’t want to pay higher taxes.

You could quadruple the NHS budget and it would still be broken. The NHS needs complete reform, it’s not fit for purpose and no amount of money is going to change that.

Undertaking private work props up NHS work in most Trusts. A couple of £mil a year would pay for about 50 staff nurses.

The NHS is not fit for purpose OP. It's a huge lumbering bureaucracy that isn't very flexible and is hard to change. The amount of money wasted is huge and we would be much better served by a hybrid system like many on offer in Europe. BUT as soon as anyone talks about changing the NHS everyone gets up in arms and says we can't change it because it is free at the point of delivery and we don't want to be like the USA (never mind how much it lets some people down). Anyway I'm sure I will be shot down but after 20+ years in healthcare I feel I am entitled to my opinion

It is entirely possible to bump yourself up the NHS queue by having an initial private consultation with a doc who also does NHS work. It’s legal and has been for years. It’s not right but it’s possible.

Think about it like this. The NHS gynaecologist works in his every day job for the nhs seeing patients. On his day off, say a Saturday, he just so happens to be able to rent (for a small fortune) a fully staffed operating theatre in the building he coincidentally works in to see some of his private patients.

The small fortune he pays to rent the operating theatres goes back into the NHS whilst also shortening the Monday to Friday NHS waiting list.

If he can do ten procedures during a 10-12 hour theatre list on a Saturday, taking £2k off all of you, that’s £20k, some for himself and the rest to rent the theatre for the day.

You’re not jumping anything - you’re going private. It’s nice to have the option isn’t it?

I hate that consultants do this. Train and work in the NHS then make themselves unavailable for half a week to work privately.
I know some won’t do private work out of principal. And they’re far from poor becuase of it.

I know what you mean OP - before I worked for a GP practice I had no idea how private worked, I assumed that if you went private, you had to stay private. A lot of our patients go private for the initial diagnosis, then the private consultant puts them straight on his NHS list, which saves a lot of waiting for the patient.

Consultants are contracted to work for the NHS for a fixed number of hours. They may choose to work privately for additional hours. When you are treated by a consultant privately, they are not using their NHS hours and you are not therefore taking up an NHS slot or queue jumping.

@ImaHogg

For clarification, I enquired at the private hospital as that is where I thought I would have the procedure, I never thought for a second it would be at an NHS hospital. Surely if I were to pay privately and then go to my local NHS hospital that is taking the time slot of someone who could be an NHS patient?

No. The consultant books and pays the NHS hospital for out of hours slots for his private patients. One of the biggest issues at NHS hospitals is that they don't fully utilise their operating theatres, particularly at weekends, it is not a 24/7 service.

You are contributing to the NHS hospitals revenue, don't worry about it.

@Adventureswith

You’re not jumping anything - you’re going private. It’s nice to have the option isn’t it?

She isn’t “going private”. She’s going for a private consultation and ultrasound and then getting bumped up the consultant’s NHS list.

She isn’t “going private”. She’s going for a private consultation and ultrasound and then getting bumped up the consultant’s NHS list.

That's my understanding.

You certainly can 'jump' NHS waiting times.

Dd has complex medical needs. At the time we went private for consultations she was NG fed but pulling the tube constantly so it was reinserted for every feed ( under one so lots of feeds) I had to reinsert it myself or go to a and e every single time.

The NHS wouldn't do gastro surgery for a more permanent tube until we had a diagnosis. Appointments with various departments took months at a time.

Once we had a feeling what was wrong we asked our ENT to check for this. They wouldn't and their reasoning was it was very rare so wouldn't be that so was a waste of a general anaesthetic etc.

We went private and spent around 5k for the consultations and the procedure to check. ( our hunch was correct and she did have what we suspected)

The surgery to fix the problem and to sort her feeding tube would have been around 20k.

Our consultant bounced us back to himself to his NHS clinic and we had the procedure done within 2 months. He arranged another surgeon to insert a PEG at the same time as the NG would damage the throat work he was going to be doing.

The NHS waiting list at the time for her PEG was close to a year. We'd still be waiting now to even have a diagnosis... We spent a year in the hands of the NHS with a baby who was clearly poorly and it took months to even get someone to listen and once they did start to listen we spent a long time searching for answers.

I do feel guilty that there's other mothers out there who can't afford this but we did what we did as we needed answers so I don't feel guilt on our part exactly - if that makes sense?

If we had to we would have funded the 20k with loans but the specialist refered us without us asking him to.

Her surgery has totally improved her quality of life and I'd do it again if I needed to.

It is part of the systematic and deliberate undermining of the NHS.

NHS used to be the gold standard, so it couldn't politically be privatised. It will take time but by pushing those who can afford it to private, this both diverst money out of the NHS system and reduces societal support for the NHS itself.

UK is drifting towards the US model, of decent health care if you can pay and shit healthcare if you can't. This is intentional and a political choice.

Quite a lot of nhs hospitals have a private floor or wing. It earns them revenue, gives them emergency capacity (some have been used for nhs cancer patients during the pandemic, and allows drs to make the best use of their time.

It is awful but it'll get worse. Everyone who can does it in Ireland, many hold full private insurance avoiding any public list. Im a PAYG private patient well my DC are.
Then what happens is public consultants take on a private clinic halving their time and the public list gets bigger.
DD has a nuero disability with other issues we waited 2 years for a consultant, before the next list of another year for an MRI.
We are not well off but have to do it.
I pay for both of the DC's OT privately and DD's psychotherapist whenever she is struggling.

@NoSquirrels

Most consultants in the NHS also see private patients alongside, for a fee. You would be paying for the operation as a private patient - you’d no longer be on the NHS waiting list. Isn’t that what you expected when you rang to go private?

Read the OP.

It's very clearly stated in the OP she'd be having the operation in a NHS hospital, under the NHS. Bloody hell why bother commenting without bothering to read the full post first.

Yeah different things happening here.

If Op is paying for operation privately, then that shortens the NHS list, regardless of where the operation actually takes place.

But I think what OP is describing is different. if she is just paying for a consultation and ultrasound, which she has already received in NHS- then going back to NHS operation, but getting it quicker, then she is jumping the list, and consultants are obviously able to insert their private patients higher up the list. No judgment for anyone choosing to do this, because they may be desperate, but as a system, this is morally wrong.

Read the OP.

🙄