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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think you don’t go to University just for the University experience

311 replies

CovidSmart · 14/05/2021 15:38

Many many discussions in our house on university atm.

Two dcs who are convinced (I imagine from what school is telling them) that what is important is to find the Uni where you will get the best experience. Somehow the rest doesn’t seem to matter as

  • companies will train you
  • you can do whatever you want after that as long as you have a degree/master.

I see university as a way to learn about a subject so you can work after so the subject is important (eg important to learn economic if you want to work in business related fields, engineering to be an engineer etc..).

Both dcs are so adamant I’m wrong that I’m starting to question myself. Not having the experience of the British system doesn’t help (went to uni and started to work in a different country).

Any experience?

OP posts:
Dishwashersaurous · 15/05/2021 17:35

So sounds like on course to do well. History at a russell group university is always a solid bet. The only thing to be aware of is that lots of courses require language skills for History degrees.

Flowers500 · 15/05/2021 17:45

@CovidSmart

But parents misunderstanding the loans system is not helpful—if you use them right there is zero issue with having them. They’ll barely make a difference on mortgage applications, etc.

@Flowers500, could you expand on that? I suspect I am one of those parents... (and so is dh)
How can you use those loans right (or wrong)?

Sure!

Students can get loans for undergrad and masters’s study. However they’re not actually loans, they’re more like a graduate tax. You only pay them back as a tax on higher income, so if you don’t earn great money you never pay it back. And they’re not like credit card debt—when you go to get a mortgage they are only considered to the extent they change your take home pay. So maybe a couple of hundred a month if you’re a high earner.

If you’re aiming for a really good career, and undergrad and postgrad are extremely helpful. They mean you can skip steps. The whole “I worked on the job and worked my way up” thing that previous generations bang on about is not really that applicable anymore. You might get a foot in the door but if you’re in your 20s you’ll then you’ll find yourself passed over for promotion by people your ages with masters education in the topic.

I would advise anyone who is academic and who wants a great career to use all of the education funding they can get. A master’s can even be done 2 years part time (from the best unis too!) which allows you to work enough to support yourself too. Being in the “high leg educated” bracket massively helps.

I agree that too many non-academic kids go the uni route when perhaps vocational education may be a better fit. But equally, too many parents (typically from non-professional backgrounds) tell their academic kids to work on the job and go that route. Which nowadays is terrible advice if you want to get senior in a professional/city/very good grad role. There’s no point looking at the CVS of people who are at the top levels there currently (people 40s and older), that was a different generation where an undergrad got you sorted. Look at the mid-level future partners, who are all educated to the hilt.

lakesidelife · 15/05/2021 17:48

DH and I are mid 40's and all of our peers have MAs. I think they are what BAs used to be before they expanded them to so many.

BackforGood · 15/05/2021 18:00

There are plenty of people who know how to play the game so the students who get to year 3/4 and then start to think about jobs are at a massive disadvantage compared to the ones who have been focused from the start.
Not necessarily. Some people do all sorts of things for reasons other than improving their CV, which accidently enhance their skills - from volunteering, to working with the public in PT jobs, or becoming involved in the running of their sports team and 1001 other things. All these develop excellent skills which are attractive to employers, but might not have been done because the student was doing them to help their career. (or to 'play the game') The most capable young adults I know are all people who are the sort of people to do things outside of their study or their main job. Of course, there is a second debate to be had as to whether they were already the folk with 'more about them' and that's what pushed them into the other roles, or whether the other roles have honed their skills, but I suspect it is 6 of one and 1/2 dozen of the other.

Years ago only the cleverest went to University,

Years ago only the most privileged went to university...... there fixed it for you

Both are over simplifications. There had to be an element of both (and also depends when "years ago" is).

DelBocaVista · 15/05/2021 18:03

Years ago only the cleverest went to University,

Years ago only the most privileged went to university...... there fixed it for you

Both are over simplifications. There had to be an element of both (and also depends when "years ago" is).

True BUT this idea that only the cleverest went to university before the expansion of HE is so bloody insulting.

Plus we are still seeing disparities in how people access university with the most privileged still accessing the best opportunities.

Original poster
CovidSmart · 15/05/2021 18:05

Thanks @Flowers500, that makes sense.

OP posts:
Original poster
CovidSmart · 15/05/2021 18:07

DH and I are mid 40's and all of our peers have MAs. I think they are what BAs used to be before they expanded them to so many.

I agree. Even with engineering, all the grads have a master now.
20 years ago, you could get away with either learning on the job or a diploma/degree

OP posts:
Namenic · 15/05/2021 18:12

@Flowers500 - I was more thinking about ability to save for a deposit (which you can’t do if you are doing a masters or 2nd undergrad) and the cash that flows out each month over a long period - rather than the ability to get a mortgage from a bank. Lower deposit and lower monthly payments may mean longer mortgage term and cost overall? I understand that the optimal strategy with student loan in the long term depends on what career path people take and their likely future earnings?

Pedalpushers · 15/05/2021 18:15

I think your perspective is skewed because engineering is the archetype vocational degree. Pretty much everyone I know went to university and the only people who work in anything related to their degree are yes, the engineers. My friend who studied history works in finance and makes 5 times what I do.

Original poster
CovidSmart · 15/05/2021 18:21

Yep I agree.
My and DH experience is all engineering/automotive industry. Our knowledge of the way finance etc... works is rubbish

OP posts:
g135 · 15/05/2021 18:22

My geography degree was the springboard into a Big 4 accountancy firm and then investment banking. My colleagues had a wide range of degrees; History, English, Politics, Economics, Geology (last one now a partner). My engineering friend went into banking, a "geography" friend become a bursar, an "English" friend is a solicitor.

It may have changed but, ironically, accountancy and/or finance type degrees were seen as rather a "soft" option by comparison. So I think the university experience point is valid and non vocational degrees are very common for many graduate jobs.

SkiingIsHeaven · 15/05/2021 18:35

I could not do my job without my degree.

ItsRainingTacos · 15/05/2021 18:46

@CovidSmart With predicted straight A's they are in a great position to go on to do good things in their chosen course and subsequent career.

BUT it is so important to have a vague idea of where it is they want to end up career-wise so they can plan their route. Which university they attend is really important as it's shorthand for employers to identify the candidates with the stronger A levels.

ItsRainingTacos · 15/05/2021 18:50

Almost everyone I know who studied engineering has ended up in the big 4. Engineering opens doors, not necessarily stuck in an engineering job.

ItsRainingTacos · 15/05/2021 18:55

A masters is not needed to get into the big 4. I have 3 relatives who have joined the big 4 without. They joined the grad schemes having done bachelors degrees in engineering at Warwick, and chemistry at Bath.

Etulosba · 15/05/2021 19:02

Years ago only the most privileged went to university...... there fixed it for you!

I went to university years ago. I don't come from a remotely privileged background. Before they were married, my mum lived in a council house and my dad lived in a garden shed.

ZaraW · 15/05/2021 19:07

I went for the experience. I've always worked to live. My university days were the best of my life and have made friendships lasting over 25 years. I have a decent job. It worked for me.

DelBocaVista · 15/05/2021 19:08

@Etulosba

Years ago only the most privileged went to university...... there fixed it for you!

I went to university years ago. I don't come from a remotely privileged background. Before they were married, my mum lived in a council house and my dad lived in a garden shed.

How many years ago are we talking here?

There are examples of those from non privileged backgrounds going to university prior to the massification of HE but they were the exeption rather than the rule.

DelBocaVista · 15/05/2021 19:09

*exception

TheLastLotus · 15/05/2021 19:17

@ItsRainingTacos if you’re talking about the Big4 accountancy firms - not all their schemes are the same.
Audit is a body count and pretty much anybody who has a 2:1, some work experience/activities can get in. Provided they pass all stages of interviews which are not technical at all and competency based. All very doable and as they are so structured interviews are easy to pass.

Things like IT Risk, tech consulting etc are also easy to get into. The issue with this though is that your career very much depends on the team - I’ve known people not put on projects for months (‘benched’) while their peers worked on prestigious contracts. With Covid thèse teams were hard hit.
Corporate Finance and management consulting (the more ‘prestigious’ schemes are more competitive), and as corporate finance can be basically investment banking (which is one of THE most prestigious finance jobs) competition is cutthroat.

ItsRainingTacos · 15/05/2021 19:33

@TheLastLotus yes the big 4. Yes, one in less prestigious audit at a regional office but he's happy with that while the other two are at the London offices in management consulting. Very recent, in the last 5 years. No masters needed.

TheLastLotus · 15/05/2021 19:35

@CovidSmart that’s a wise perspective on salary. What are your DC personalities like? Laidback, ambitious..?

ItsRainingTacos · 15/05/2021 19:35

The cost of a masters degree these days is eye-watering. Not sure how much it helps in getting your foot in the door with the big 4.

TheLastLotus · 15/05/2021 19:37

@ItsRainingTacos yes a masters isn’t needed at all for B4. Most people I know do them because they don’t know else to do and it’s funded so why not?
Depending on the job additional qualifications would probably add more value. Or a masters in the field you actually end up working in... with employer paying :D

DelBocaVista · 15/05/2021 19:38

@ItsRainingTacos

The cost of a masters degree these days is eye-watering. Not sure how much it helps in getting your foot in the door with the big 4.
That very much depends on the masters and the uni! Some are more reasonable than others!