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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU - family member and money issue arghhhh......

171 replies

stfuDoris · 13/05/2021 15:03

Please be gentle - long time lurker but first actual post of my own....

So...roll back to first lockdown March 2020...I worked throughout each lockdown no furlough etc so maintained regular wage however my sister who is self employed had to cease trading and initially was not in receipt of any loans grants etc. She was extremely stressed during this time as had no way to cover her regular monthly outgoings so I offered to cover some of her bills to ease the pressure as did another family member - in total I paid £1800 of her monthly bills over approx 5 months until she was able to start working again. Yes I received my normal wage each month but I have my own bills and this was an additional expense each month that I had to budget for, it was not from savings etc.

Roll on to August 2020 my sister finally received payment - to the tune of £18k which was backdated to March 2020...she straight away paid back the other family member who had also paid some of her bills.

Now here is my dilemma...I rightly or wrongly ‘expected’ her to do the same re the money I had paid out but it was never mentioned...she has now put the majority of this money into savings - for a new car and luxury holiday for when times permit.....has not had to use any for expenses raised during that time if that makes sense as they were covered. She also lives with a parent and was rent/board free throughout.

A week ago I had mentioned a car bill I had and she said if I was short she could ‘lend’ me the money however would need it back as she was going to book a holiday as soon as she could. I ‘flippantly’ said - well instead of lending me the money you could pay back what I paid out during lockdown .....and all hell broke loose.... she said I had told her not to worry about it at the time which I am sure I probably did as she had enough going on, and at the time was unsure whether she would even qualify for anything. She also said it’s only because she received this money (8 months ago!!) that I brought it up....which again is partly true if she had not have been in a place financially to have paid me back I would probably have just written it off however, she is in a position financially and if that had been me ‘morally’ I would have paid it back regardless. I am now left feeling like I am completely in the wrong and the worst of the worst for even bringing this up, she has contacted me since saying she can’t believe I brought it up and reiterated that I was the one who said don’t worry about it at the time and that the offer of the loan was still there if I wanted it but it would be a loan.

For context she is quite a bit younger than me, late 20’s tho so not a teenager......is single, lives with parent, her monthly outgoings that she couldn’t meet during lockdown were all personal bills ie credit cards, car insurance, phone and finance agreements.

I feel a complete mug here as the money she received was backdated to March 2020 so she has been ‘compensated’ as such for money that she would have had to pay out during the time when she was unable to work however she is so annoyed and shocked that I dared to mention the money that I paid out on HER bills, I am second guessing myself and thinking maybe I was wrong to even bring it up?? AIBU?

OP posts:
FinallyHere · 14/05/2021 10:34

Any decent human would want to pay back as soon as they had the means to do so. They certainly wouldn't tuck away money for a luxury holiday without having paid back any help from family.

The terms of the loan are not material within the family, where the loan was a spontaneous response to a need.

Let's hope the sister develops the maturity to realise this soon rather than later.

Bluntness100 · 14/05/2021 11:21

@warmduscher
Thanks for kindly explaining the thread to me, but it was not necessary I was able to read it and comprehend It all by myself.

The point I was making is when the op told her not to worry about it, it means, to most people. Don’t pay it back. The op has since changed her mind and wants it. Irrelevant of why she told her sister it was a gift not a loan, that’s what she basically did. No way round it. So for me they are both unreasonable. The op should have said “pay me back when you can” like the other person.

SympathyFatigue · 14/05/2021 11:33

Sounds l like my sibling.
Happily lived rent free and saved every penny by not paying any outgoings and claims they've saved money through hard work alone.
Hmm no, you've been subsidised by others.

Your sister is a joker.
These types rely on you being normal moral people. That's why she knows you'll pay her back if she now loans you for your car. I'd surprise her by mirroring her shit behaviour and taje the money and not paying back.
Why are you worried about doing that?
If anyone asks, which they won't, just laugh and say it's just repayment of the 1800 you paid. Fuck, she paid the other sucker back their money.

Warmduscher · 14/05/2021 11:50

[quote Bluntness100]@warmduscher
Thanks for kindly explaining the thread to me, but it was not necessary I was able to read it and comprehend It all by myself.

The point I was making is when the op told her not to worry about it, it means, to most people. Don’t pay it back. The op has since changed her mind and wants it. Irrelevant of why she told her sister it was a gift not a loan, that’s what she basically did. No way round it. So for me they are both unreasonable. The op should have said “pay me back when you can” like the other person.[/quote]
You’re very welcome.

It’s not that the OP “changed her mind” with exactly the same set of circumstances as when she paid the sister’s bills.

The situation changed, in that the sister went from having no income and with no way to pay her bills, to being in receipt of a lump sum from the government big enough for her to be able to put enough in savings for a luxury holiday.

Do you think the OP would have offered to pay her sister’s bills if the sister had received the lump sum straight away?

Pemba · 14/05/2021 11:56

No 'Don't worry about it' does not mean 'It's a gift' clearly. If the sister had never had the money from the government then in those circumstances I am sure the OP would have been satisfied to write it off. But the sister has effectively had a windfall in the government payout. She also knows very well that her sister is not well off herself. She should have done the decent thing, and to make out that the OP is the one behaving badly is beyond the pale.

I do think the OP should have said something when the sister got the money though. Obviously these things can be awkward, but the sister is taking advantage of that. Cheeky mare.

mainsfed · 14/05/2021 12:01

Never a borrower or a lender be.

Brainwave89 · 14/05/2021 12:07

Wow you have been had for a total mug. You support your DS, she then gets a shed load of Covid cash and completely blanks you when she gets it. In effect you will be paying for her holiday. I would never be lending her money again.

KarmaStar · 14/05/2021 12:24

She is a really nasty piece of work doing this to you.From your last post it is clear she is living beyond her means and has no savings to fall back on.
Tell her again that you want the money back and if she refuses to pay what she owes you could tell her you will seek to take it further.(small claims?).(I don't know if HMRC would be interested to know she had all her bills covered contrary to what she told them but you could mention it to her😀😀).
Failing that,show her the replies on here!
What a c.f.,I really hope that you are fully reimbursed.🌈🌈

Pinkdelight3 · 14/05/2021 13:01

Don't worry about it' does not mean 'It's a gift' clearly

It does though. It means don't worry about paying me back, which means the person doesn't expect paying back, which means it's a gift.

I agree the Dsis should be a good person and pay, but I absolutely disagree that it's clear. Hence the confusion that's erupted.

Cheeserton · 14/05/2021 13:09

Her reaction is disgraceful and nasty. Of course you'll mention it, andrrightly so. And yes it's because she has been paid, and that's perfectly right and natural too. She is unbelievably selfish to try and twist this on you.

Show her this thread.

PAY YOUR SISTER BACK YOU GREAT BIG MEANY USER.

Spidey66 · 14/05/2021 13:12

What a bitch.

Many in that situation would have taken bank loans or overdraft to tide them over, and when they got the lump sum would have used it to pay off the debts. Just because you loaned her the money, the principle would be the same.

Toothdrama · 14/05/2021 13:52

I think it depends on the conversation

If the sister said at the time "I will pay you back promise" and op replied with "no dont worry about it" then in the sisters mind irrelevant of what happens op doesnt want the money repaid. If the conversation was ... here take this £1800 dont worry about it, it's fine... then the implication is that at that moment it was fine for the sister to have the money and if rhe situation changed meaning she could repay then she should.

Either way the sister got the money back from the government and if she had a good moral compass she would want to repay the favour by giving the money back as she is in a position to do so.

That money from the government should be to cover living costs and not flash holidays and cars. If after repaying any loans etc needed at the time so she could live there was any additional funds then yes these could be used for the luxuries.

billy1966 · 14/05/2021 15:58

This is about decency and indecency IMO.

The OP was decent to say to her sister who needed help and was stuck "don't worry about it"....AkA "don't stress yourself about it, at the moment".. being a kind supportive sister.

The sister is utterly indecent to have accepted that money, now having been compensated by government to now think that she doesn't need to repay her sister.

The utter selfishness of her actions needs to be broadcast and hell would freeze over before I would help her again.

If I was her parent I would take strips off her for behaving as if she doesn't have an iota of a moral compass.

As a parent I would be utterly appalled to hear one of my children would treat a sibling like that.

Youcunnyfunt · 14/05/2021 16:16

I don't know - I can imagine if I was early-mid 20s and a close relative offered to help me out, and indicated they didn't want it back - I'd be so grateful but it probably wouldn't cross my mind to then try to return it if all the conversations were "don't worry about it". I'd consider getting the later compensation a bit of a bonus in that case. I can see it from her POV. It's a bit selfish / thoughtless - but it was a mistake to say don't worry about it. I'd be a bit more explicit in future and say, if you can pay it back, then please do!

melj1213 · 14/05/2021 16:36

It does though. It means don't worry about paying me back, which means the person doesn't expect paying back, which means it's a gift.

No it doesn't.

In my circle of family and friends it would mean "I know you're in dire circumstances, so don't worry about how you are going to repay me right now while you have bigger things to think about. Take the money and get your bills up to date and leave the concern for repayment till later."

Obviously if the situation hadn't changed then, as long as I could afford it, I would write it off and "call it your Christmas and birthday present" but if the situation changed to one where they could repay the money then that's when I would be expecting them to approach and say "I know you said don't worry about it, at the time, but I have the money now so let's settle up what I owe you". I would then have the opportunity to either accept the loan returned or reiterate that I was happy to write it off, but that is my decision to make.

Warmduscher · 14/05/2021 17:50

@Youcunnyfunt

I don't know - I can imagine if I was early-mid 20s and a close relative offered to help me out, and indicated they didn't want it back - I'd be so grateful but it probably wouldn't cross my mind to then try to return it if all the conversations were "don't worry about it". I'd consider getting the later compensation a bit of a bonus in that case. I can see it from her POV. It's a bit selfish / thoughtless - but it was a mistake to say don't worry about it. I'd be a bit more explicit in future and say, if you can pay it back, then please do!
The OP didn’t say “all the conversations” involved her saying not to worry about it.

And that fact is, the situation has now changed, the sister is quids in and is trying to say that the same applies when she was penniless as when she had enough money to save for a luxury holiday.

If the sister knew she was in with a chance of getting government money, the moment she knew she’d been successful she should have contacted the OP to tell her her circumstances had changed, and she no longer needed bailing out. The fact she didn’t - and is trying to make the OP feel grabby - is shocking.

lolacola77 · 14/05/2021 17:54

She's a CF! You need to get this sorted. She's coming across as a spoiled, bratty twat.

MyrrAgain · 14/05/2021 18:24

Basically - are the tax paying people here happy to know their contributions are going towards this woman taking a luxury holiday?? Ask yourself this question and then say again if you think "don't worry about it" means OP can't request their money back now the situation has totally changed with the payout

WestendVBroadway · 14/05/2021 19:56

I really don't understand why so many people would think 'Don't worry about it' would translate as ' you do not need to pay me back.'

FinallyHere · 14/05/2021 21:01

I really don't understand how anyone would imagine that when they get paid back for something (government grant ) they wouldn't use that money to pay back anything before starting their luxury holiday fund.

Pinkdelight3 · 15/05/2021 09:35

I really don't understand why so many people would think 'Don't worry about it' would translate as ' you do not need to pay me back.'

Simply because it means don't worry about paying me back, is all. I don't think anyone's disputing that the sister should pay OP back, morally. Only pointing out where the different takes on the situation have arisen and that should is not the same as must. If it had been agreed as a loan, there wouldn't be an issue. The fact that it wasn't is the issue here. So absolutely the right thing to do is for the sister to pay OP back. But if it went on Judge Judy, the OP sadly wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

DoubleTweenQueen · 15/05/2021 11:13

Don't worry about it does not equate to don't do it. Basic English comprehension :D

DoubleTweenQueen · 15/05/2021 11:15

Also 'it' does not translate to 'paying it back', in most languages. Take care how you extrapolate language!

Pinkdelight3 · 15/05/2021 11:44

In my experience, it's what people say when you try to pay them back and they wave it away, all embarrassed, "it's fine, don't worry about it."

Comprehension-wise, there's no world in which it means "it's a loan".

DoubleTweenQueen · 15/05/2021 12:07

I didn't say 'it' = 'it's a loan'

'it' is a term that requires further definition, usually provided by context and further reference.