AIBU - family member and money issue arghhhh......

[stfuDoris]

Please be gentle - long time lurker but first actual post of my own....

So...roll back to first lockdown March 2020...I worked throughout each lockdown no furlough etc so maintained regular wage however my sister who is self employed had to cease trading and initially was not in receipt of any loans grants etc. She was extremely stressed during this time as had no way to cover her regular monthly outgoings so I offered to cover some of her bills to ease the pressure as did another family member - in total I paid £1800 of her monthly bills over approx 5 months until she was able to start working again. Yes I received my normal wage each month but I have my own bills and this was an additional expense each month that I had to budget for, it was not from savings etc.

Roll on to August 2020 my sister finally received payment - to the tune of £18k which was backdated to March 2020...she straight away paid back the other family member who had also paid some of her bills.

Now here is my dilemma...I rightly or wrongly ‘expected’ her to do the same re the money I had paid out but it was never mentioned...she has now put the majority of this money into savings - for a new car and luxury holiday for when times permit.....has not had to use any for expenses raised during that time if that makes sense as they were covered. She also lives with a parent and was rent/board free throughout.

A week ago I had mentioned a car bill I had and she said if I was short she could ‘lend’ me the money however would need it back as she was going to book a holiday as soon as she could. I ‘flippantly’ said - well instead of lending me the money you could pay back what I paid out during lockdown .....and all hell broke loose.... she said I had told her not to worry about it at the time which I am sure I probably did as she had enough going on, and at the time was unsure whether she would even qualify for anything. She also said it’s only because she received this money (8 months ago!!) that I brought it up....which again is partly true if she had not have been in a place financially to have paid me back I would probably have just written it off however, she is in a position financially and if that had been me ‘morally’ I would have paid it back regardless. I am now left feeling like I am completely in the wrong and the worst of the worst for even bringing this up, she has contacted me since saying she can’t believe I brought it up and reiterated that I was the one who said don’t worry about it at the time and that the offer of the loan was still there if I wanted it but it would be a loan.

For context she is quite a bit younger than me, late 20’s tho so not a teenager......is single, lives with parent, her monthly outgoings that she couldn’t meet during lockdown were all personal bills ie credit cards, car insurance, phone and finance agreements.

I feel a complete mug here as the money she received was backdated to March 2020 so she has been ‘compensated’ as such for money that she would have had to pay out during the time when she was unable to work however she is so annoyed and shocked that I dared to mention the money that I paid out on HER bills, I am second guessing myself and thinking maybe I was wrong to even bring it up?? AIBU?

[AmandaHoldensLips]

You said "don't worry about it" which is not the same as saying "this is a gift".

Don't worry about it means don't worry about it YET.

She's taking the piss. I think you need to make it clear what you meant - that she needn't worry about paying it back YET, which was ages ago.

She owes you £1800. Tell her.

[fruitpastille]

You helped her out when she needed it. She should do the same and help you out now you need it. I'd tell her to stick her 'loan'.

[Mrsmadevans]

She sounds like a narc to me OP , they don't have any conscience at all, are selfish and total users then they smear you to everyone . Does this ring a bell? Be glad you have found out now and not wasted another 30 years on your sister like l have, it is well worth 1800 quid to find out now.

[Horehound]

I think she is being really selfish and cruel to you after you've been so kind.
She sounds like a self entitled, selfish twenty+ year old. She won't understand how she is wrong. I doubt you'll get the money unfortunately :(

[stfuDoris]

Thanks everyone for replies it means a lot x this has actually really upset me I would never have expected her to behave in this way.

Someone mentioned I should have asked for it back as soon as she received payment and i agree I should have however it felt very awkward to bring it up as she never mentioned it. I did tell her this over the last few days and her response was - so you have seen me probably every week for the last 8 months and thought this - unbelievable! I did respond that I shouldn’t have had to be the one that brought it up - she doesn’t seem to get it tho - I did try by saying if you had paid xxxx’s bills when they couldn’t and then they received the money to cover those bills would you not expect them to pay you back and pay their bills?? She just said it wasn’t the same and stormed out....

I think in more ways I am hurt that she has reacted like this and seems to think I am in the wrong. I have been hoping she would vent to another family member who would hopefully set her straight but up until now it looks like she has kept quiet.

I won’t be accepting any “loan” from her and not paying back - although that does sound like a good idea it just wouldn’t sit right with me arghhh. I just can’t get my head round the fact that she feels I should cover her bills and say nothing when she has received (all be it backdated) ‘compensation’ in a way for those outgoings. I have said to her that she is behaving as if I have said oh you received that money just give me £1800 of it - she doesn’t seem to get it tho.

They were HER bills tho which the money she received was paid to cover....to make her whole as such during the time she couldn’t work - but she never paid them in the first place - I did!! Not sure how to move forward from this I can’t see her backing down. One thing I do know is I won’t be making the same mistake again lol.

[Horehound]

I know this may not be great to have to do but what about asking your parents to speak some sense into her?

[DrinkFeckArseBrick]

What a fucking selfish entitled bitch. I'm sorry but...wow. she has profited from your generosity, she is actually in a better position than she was before because of you.
And why isn't she treating you the same? Maybe if she genuinely thought it was a gift she was surprised to be asked...but if you've helped her out with a gift when she needed it then surely it's only fair that she helps you out with a gift when you need it?

That's what would hurt me, that you were willing to help her out, but her help when the situations are reversed have a load of conditions on it. Most people would be happy to be able to show their gratitude.

Would your parents have a word with her?

[Cadent]

Get your money back pronto, OP, even if you have to unleash hell. If she refuses to give it back I would write her off for life, the thieving twat.

[emilyfrost]

YANBU. She’s being a cheeky bitch, but you should have brought it up at the time.

I would absolutely accept the money and refuse to pay it back.

[billybagpuss]

You have been taken for a mug, yanbu to have expected her to pay you back straight away.

[Billandben444]

I would explain to parents what has happened and tell them you're giving her a wide berth for a while. Then I'd leave it as a lesson learnt. You have the moral high ground (though you're out of pocket!) and your parents will at least understand what's going on if your sister puts a bit of spin on it. I wouldn't ask them to intervene though as you don't know how that would pan out. What a bitch!

[Dogwoodrose]

Even if she really did misunderstand you telling her not to worry about it surely most people would be mortified they had misunderstood, not angry and defensive when it was mentioned? It sounds to me like she feels she was somehow entitled to your money OP and that's why she's not backing down. She should be paying you back though, no question.

[GroovyClementine]

I would be inclined towards the following,

Dear sister, please continue to "not worry about it" but I do think you should worry about what will happen if you get yourself into financial trouble in the future because I am done with assisting you with money, permanently.

Your sister is a short term observing and assumption making fool. All because she had that money come through, she thinks woohoo, it's all okay now. That she cannot see that more trouble could come in an instant is quite shocking. The current virus situation came out of nowhere and tore many lives assunder financially. Does she not see that it, or indeed, something just as bad or worse, could happen again, leaving her with no funds and having alienated the person who was kind enough to see her through.

Very short-sighted I think.

I'd write it off but never help her with anything ever again.

[Voomster953]

This wont happen unless there is a written loan agreement, with repayment terms

Not strictly true. I won in small claims court without a loan agreement, as I was able to evidence with communications and bank statements what had taken place and what the likely expectations were.

[Dora33]

Tell your other family members. She most likely wants to keep this quiet . There are 2 issues here. 1 that she is not paying you back ( should have been a priority after she received the back money).
The 2nd is her treatment of you. This is not acceptable. She has basically made a profit of £1800 through you.
Even if she was self focused and really thought this was a gift, she should have apologized and immediately repaid the money once you asked for it back.

[the80sweregreat]

Did you have anything in writing ?
Not being mean here , but it's the first rule of any money lending , even to family.
She should have paid you back straight away and is out of order not to.

[TeamMummy]

Why does somebody who's still living with a parent and also paying no board have such high outgoings!!

Champagne lifestyle, lemonade budget?

Luxury holiday, renting a car, why not save for a house deposit? That would be too boring of course!

Tell her you need the money back, she sounds like a real madam who's abusing your kindness

[cstaff]

Omg she is being outrageous and she knows it. This is why she is being so defensive. She was probably hoping you would just let it go. For the same reason she was very clear about you having to pay her back.

If she doesn't bring it up with another family member, I think (if I was you) that I would have to do so, if for no other reason than she gets told that she is in the wrong. That might shame her into doing the right thing.

[user1468829213]

@Cadent

Get your money back pronto, OP, even if you have to unleash hell. If she refuses to give it back I would write her off for life, the thieving twat.

/\ THIS /\

I'm actually furious for you OP, the cheek of her. Its one thing to never mention paying you back but to then suggest booking a holiday!!! She sounds like a self indulgent millennial with very twisted morals.

I wouldn't back down on this.

[Daisylg]

Please send her this thread and make her see what a twat she’s being. You are definitely not being unreasonable, she’s behaved disgusting

[FishintheStream]

Well obviously YANBU and morally she should have repaid you as soon as she could. As soon as you mentioned the car bill, most people would have said, "sorry, you probably need that money back don't you?" or at the very least, "I'd better help you out how you helped me, by paying that bill with no expectation of repayment".

However, I also think that you said not to worry about it, and she took you at your word on that. I imagine that her overreaction and refusal to repay you is to do with the fact that she feels guilty that you have been wanting her to pay you back the whole time, whilst she has been thinking, "awesome, free money". Doesn't make it right, just thinking she might need some time to feel less embarrassed so that she can make a sensible decision.

[TedImgoingmad]

Your sister is CF and nasty piece of work. Never, ever do her any favours again, and certainly never lend her money again. I would not go down the road of taking a loan and not paying it back as pp suggested. You will come off as the bad guy, because you don't sound like you are adept at playing her dishonest games. You need to write this money off, but learn a lesson, and remember this next time she comes knocking on your door for help.

[youshallnotpass9]

@stfuDoris

I would stop thinking of it as paying her bills, the government have done that, with the grant. You are paying for her holiday.

[ittakes2]

Rather than sense check with us - sense check it with your parents. Anyone with a moral compass would take your side and I bet your parents would to.
Don't complain about her - just say you were surprised at her reaction and were you in the wrong? Kind of like what you have done with us. People like to come up with their own conclusion and when they do they own it.

[TedImgoingmad]

That should be, you need to demand the money back or write it off. Don't play games over it. Be upfront what you want, don't try to deceive her by getting it back via a loan you won't pay back. That's just stooping to her level.