AIBU - family member and money issue arghhhh......

[stfuDoris]

Please be gentle - long time lurker but first actual post of my own....

So...roll back to first lockdown March 2020...I worked throughout each lockdown no furlough etc so maintained regular wage however my sister who is self employed had to cease trading and initially was not in receipt of any loans grants etc. She was extremely stressed during this time as had no way to cover her regular monthly outgoings so I offered to cover some of her bills to ease the pressure as did another family member - in total I paid £1800 of her monthly bills over approx 5 months until she was able to start working again. Yes I received my normal wage each month but I have my own bills and this was an additional expense each month that I had to budget for, it was not from savings etc.

Roll on to August 2020 my sister finally received payment - to the tune of £18k which was backdated to March 2020...she straight away paid back the other family member who had also paid some of her bills.

Now here is my dilemma...I rightly or wrongly ‘expected’ her to do the same re the money I had paid out but it was never mentioned...she has now put the majority of this money into savings - for a new car and luxury holiday for when times permit.....has not had to use any for expenses raised during that time if that makes sense as they were covered. She also lives with a parent and was rent/board free throughout.

A week ago I had mentioned a car bill I had and she said if I was short she could ‘lend’ me the money however would need it back as she was going to book a holiday as soon as she could. I ‘flippantly’ said - well instead of lending me the money you could pay back what I paid out during lockdown .....and all hell broke loose.... she said I had told her not to worry about it at the time which I am sure I probably did as she had enough going on, and at the time was unsure whether she would even qualify for anything. She also said it’s only because she received this money (8 months ago!!) that I brought it up....which again is partly true if she had not have been in a place financially to have paid me back I would probably have just written it off however, she is in a position financially and if that had been me ‘morally’ I would have paid it back regardless. I am now left feeling like I am completely in the wrong and the worst of the worst for even bringing this up, she has contacted me since saying she can’t believe I brought it up and reiterated that I was the one who said don’t worry about it at the time and that the offer of the loan was still there if I wanted it but it would be a loan.

For context she is quite a bit younger than me, late 20’s tho so not a teenager......is single, lives with parent, her monthly outgoings that she couldn’t meet during lockdown were all personal bills ie credit cards, car insurance, phone and finance agreements.

I feel a complete mug here as the money she received was backdated to March 2020 so she has been ‘compensated’ as such for money that she would have had to pay out during the time when she was unable to work however she is so annoyed and shocked that I dared to mention the money that I paid out on HER bills, I am second guessing myself and thinking maybe I was wrong to even bring it up?? AIBU?

[fruitbrewhaha]

What a total bitch. I wouldn't back down either.

[Beseigedbykillersquirrels]

I wouldn't be able to be on the same room as her after this. I really don't think she would find anyone to agree with her on this, which is probably why she's keeping quiet to other family members. Her level of self centeredness is astonishing. Even if you had said it was a gift, she should have been so grateful for your kindness that she should have insisted you have the money back, not rub her hands together in glee at the thought of being quids in now due to your generosity.
If you really don't think she will repay what she owes then I'd not have anything more to do with her and I wouldn't keep her secret for her either. I'd let people know why I didn't want a nasty, greedy, selfish person like her in my life anymore.
How can someone have the barefaced cheek to offer you a loan and state it has to be repaid, knowing that they have taken money off you to keep them afloat during difficult times? Seems like she thinks what's yours is mine and what's mine is mine. Alright to take from others when the chips are down but soon forgets the kindness of others when she's in a more fortunate position. Urgh, she is truly ghastly.

[Guavafish]

Ask for the money in monthly instalments

[WarwickHunt]

I have been in a similar situation with a friend albeit for a significantly smaller amount of money. She was at a point where she was unable to eat! I transferred about £200 to her and was pretty vague about whether it was a gift or a loan. Her life was in such a crisis at that point, and the amount involved was not significant to me, so it did not seem to be fair to make a big issue of it. To be fair I wrote the money off in my own mind.

Her fortunes have always been rather up-and-down, and shortly afterwards she got a very well-paid job (moreso than mine). She never mentioned the amount of money and neither did I. (Another friend of hers resorted to solicitors' letters to recover money!)

She now finds herself very much down on her luck again, and although we are still friendly, and I am still very comfortable financially, and I am generally sympathetic to her plight, it does not occur to me to offer her any more money, and if she asked I would say no.

I guess what I'm saying is that it's better to treat these things as a gift and not to offer the money if you can't afford not to get it back. But equally you should take the other person's subsequent behaviour into account in recalibrating your relationship with them, and how helpful you might be in future.

[TopBlogger]

@Guavafish

Ask for the money in monthly instalments

No.
Ask for it all back in one lump sum. Cheeky cow

[waitingforthenextseason]

Of course she should pay you back ; she got paid! And so did everyone else. She's taking the piss and being vile.

[Bimblybomeyelash]

Of course she should bloody repay you! That’s what the money is for! The government aren’t giving her money to go on holiday, they are giving her money to pay her
bills. She hasn’t received a lottery win or am inheritance windfall that you want a share of, and she has a bloody cheek not paying you back straight away.

[WeAllHaveWings]

She absolutely should pay you back. Be confident you are in the right when discussing with her.

[Bimblybomeyelash]

But what she should do and what you can make her do sadly are not the same. So al you can do is back off and not offer her any support in the future.

I would be tempted to accept her ‘loan’ and then struggle to pay her back any more than £5 a week and then spend the next 7 years handing her £5 note every week.

[DoubleTweenQueen]

You saying at the time to ‘not worry about it’ translates very clearly to “this is a very stressful time for you, so I’ll help you get through this stressful time, and we’ll discuss paying the support funds back if and when you are able” - clearly as no-one could know how long the pandemic would affect everyone, and if your sister would be getting any financial support. These issues have now clarified, and morally she should have been keen to repay your kind support.

Do not allow her to make you feel guilty for asking her to pay the money back

[notalwaysalondoner]

I actually think if you didn't explicitly agree she needed to pay you back at the time then YABU. It's definitely not unreasonable to hope she'll choose to pay you back, and resent her if she doesn't, but at the end of the day if you just paid her bills without mentioning repayment, or even more, told her she didn't need to worry about paying it back, it's a bit unfair to suddenly change the goalposts now she's come into some money. You should have thought this through properly at the time rather than changing the rules halfway through.

[rainbowstardrops]

She's an absolute CF!!!!!!!

I was very low a good few years back and my brother's wife had just sold her marital home (different husband to my brother!) and they gave me a couple of thousand pounds to take my children on holiday for a week because I didn't have the money.
There was no talk of paying the money back - it was just a kind gesture on their part.

Fast forward to a couple of years ago and I had access to some money. There wasn't even a question to 'pay them back'! It was the obvious thing to do!

Your sister has no shame.

[stfuDoris]

Thank you all again for your kind comments.

To clear up a few questions -

The high outgoings - I didn’t consider these to be very high if I am honest. Car insurance, mobile phone, finance agreements for furniture and electrical items, credit card. She also did have premises rent which her landlord did reduce but not wipe out entirely and business insurance which she continued paying as had iequipment on the premises regardless of whether it was open or not. Ordinarily she has no issues meeting her monthly outgoings however having no income at all causes a problem!

The 18k payment - I don’t know the full ins and out of this but was calculated through HMRC as far as I am aware so am assuming it was correct?? It was backdated 6 months to the start of lockdown so she had no income at all for 6 months. Now in my mind that payment was to cover all expenses etc for those 6 months - some of which I paid so really I should receive the compensation for those bills paid - she does not seem to grasp that tho.

Re speaking to parent/family member - I did consider this but thought she would be first to vent lol however on thinking about it she actually did mention her rent/board which normally she does pay at parents - that what would she be expected to pay that too!! and I had said well considering you received ‘compensation’ in a way for it it would only be fair that you offered it as they still had the same outgoings without your input - this did not go down well! I have a feeling she has kept quiet purely because of this she doesn’t feel she needs to compensate for the months she didn’t pay rent/board even though she had all be it six months later no financially hardship - she was the only one made whole again for mine and parents outgoings.

[billyt]

@notalwaysalondoner

I actually think if you didn't explicitly agree she needed to pay you back at the time then YABU. It's definitely not unreasonable to hope she'll choose to pay you back, and resent her if she doesn't, but at the end of the day if you just paid her bills without mentioning repayment, or even more, told her she didn't need to worry about paying it back, it's a bit unfair to suddenly change the goalposts now she's come into some money. You should have thought this through properly at the time rather than changing the rules halfway through.

are you the sister?

She hasn't come into money, she's been given government money (which actually is all OUR money) and also taken the OPs money.

She is a selfish, greedy fucker.

[ilovebrie8]

Shocking behaviour she should pay you no doubt about it....how the heck did she get £18k?

[Unsubscribed]

What was the difference between you OP and the other family member who did get paid back.

[billybagpuss]

Did you point out you would have booked a holiday if you hadn’t given her £1800

[Unsure33]

Morally she should give you the money back and I am sure at the time when you said don’t worry about it you meant for now . Not for ever .

But never lend money even to family without getting something signed . Even if it’s .. I agree that this money will be paid sometime in the future when the situation improves .

To be honest this pandemic was extreme circumstances in which no one was fully aware what would happen , but how she could go and book a holiday without repaying you is just beyond me .

Unfortunately I think a family rift might mean that things are never the same again .

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

I can only think the "other family members" wouldn't have given her the easy time you have, so she paid them and saw you as the soft touch

Totally unacceptable of her anyway of course; personally I'd simply tell her you want the money and be done with it

[JohnsRaincoatLost]

The second she paid back the other family member she should have also paid you back no matter what you said. It is just plain courtesy.

You are not financially responsible for her in any way and I think it was very generous of you to pay her bills in the first place.

Clearly you know where you stand now. Never give/lend her money every again. I would tell the other family member who was paid back that you didn't get anything.

[Iloveacurry]

She’s a CF. I wouldn’t bother responding and perhaps go LC with her.

[MusicWithRocksIn1t]

Definitely talk to your parents.

Thus reminds me of when a friend owed me money but kept spending it on luxuries it got to the crunch when I told her I needed it back now because she had owed me it for about 6 months by then. She got really grumpy because she didn't have it as she had just spent the money she owed me on a new puppy. She did phone back and apologise soon after and paid me the money back hope this happens for you.

[stfuDoris]

Sorry trying to keep up with the questions x

With regards to the other family member who did the same - she actually told me back in August she was going to offer them the money back and I had said yes that would be the right thing to do. She has since said she paid them back because they had said to her at the time ‘pay me back when you can’ where as I said - don’t worry about it! She also had a major rant about why I didn’t bring it up then when she had told me she was offering them theirs back and I said because I didn’t feel I should have to ask - in hindsight a mistake yes - but in my mind I shouldn’t have to go asking for it it should have been offered. The more I think about it her reaction is what has shocked me the most - if someone had done the same for me and had even said it’s a gift you don’t ever have to pay it back but months down the line brought it up - I would be more like OMG of course here you helped me out I am more than happy to pay it back. That is not how she has been in any way she is angry as if I am doing her some kind of injustice.

Granted in hindsight I should have been clearer from the offset however it was never clear how much or if anything she was likely to receive at that time it was just clear that she would have no income for some time. As I have already said had she not received anything I would have written it off and said no more - maybe this is where she has issue - as she is right when she says if she didn’t receive payment I wouldn’t have mentioned it - the fact is tho she was compensated for those months and to me it is only right that she does the same to those who had the outlay, also if she hadn’t offered to ‘lend’ me money who knows how long or if ever it would have been before I said anything lol that riled me!

[Notaroadrunner]

I'd go to your parents house and bring it up in front of them. Relations are soured now anyway so you're not going to lose out on a close relationship going forward. I'd also bring up the fact that she hasn't paid back rent to your parents. She's a complete cf and needs to be called out in front of your parents. Even if you never get it back at least others will know what a bitch she's being.