Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To actually be concerned that my DC will be learning this absolute nonsense

153 replies

ParkItRay · 13/05/2021 14:43

I've been noticing a lot lately on social media, people in the comments referring to 'penis holders', 'chest feeders', 'people with a cervix' etc...

Just reading a thread now on a group I'm in and not a single person is saying the word man or woman (it's a discussion about circumcision and whether it should be banned).

The world has gone fucking mad and I can't stand it. I'm genuinely concerned that my DC are going to grow up thinking this utter nonsense is right.

I feel like the only person who's thinking 'MEN, YOU MEAN FUCKING MEN FOR CHRIST SAKE' as literally everyone on it seems to be buying into this crap.

It's utterly insane.

OP posts:
lifeissweet · 13/05/2021 16:32

Like the bathroom debate, where the assumption is that all transgender women just want to sexually assault women in bathrooms

I am thoroughly tired of seeing this issue phrased like this. It's a complete misrepresentation of the concerns of women.

It is about dignity and comfort as well as safety. The people some woken don't want in women's spaces are men - because they are statistically more of a danger to women than other women are - and because however they dress or identify, they do not have the shared experience of female biology that enables women to feel comfortable. That's all.

Also, I am keeping an eye on the NHS in my city. Maternity services are currently housed within the Women's Hospital. I am half expecting the name to be changed to something non-descript that doesn't clearly state who the service is for - which will help no one. Luckily, I haven't heard any rumblings about this yet.

SofiaMichelle · 13/05/2021 16:33

@ParkItRay

A friend of mine received a letter last year from their child's school about a teacher who apparently self identifies only sometimes as a woman and pupils, parents and staff were to call him Freya (not actual name) on the days he wore a dress and Frank on the days he wore a shirt and trousers.

We are also small town UK.

I would be looking at removing my child from that school.
Proudboomer · 13/05/2021 16:33

If you look at the nhs website about smear tests they use the words people with a cervix. Ifyou look at the same website under prostate it refers to men not people with a prostrate.

It seems only women have to accept this nonsense

Blossomtoes · 13/05/2021 16:34

@ParkItRay

Funnily the NHS page for prostate cancer refers to just men and not men or people with a prostate. Funny that.
Then it’s wrong, isn’t it? I’m amazed trans women haven’t picked it up and complained. (God knows, they’re quick enough to complain about most things).
H2OConnoisseur · 13/05/2021 16:34

@ParkItRay

Funnily the NHS page for prostate cancer refers to just men and not men or people with a prostate. Funny that.
No surprise there. A lot of the new 'woke' movements seem to overwhelmingly benefit men. I wonder why that is... Hmm
Original poster
ParkItRay · 13/05/2021 16:34

@Proudboomer

If you look at the nhs website about smear tests they use the words people with a cervix. Ifyou look at the same website under prostate it refers to men not people with a prostrate.

It seems only women have to accept this nonsense

Exactly my point.
OP posts:
Original poster
ParkItRay · 13/05/2021 16:35

Then it’s wrong, isn’t it?

It's not wrong. Men have prostates.

OP posts:
Whatwouldscullydo · 13/05/2021 16:35

Its not wrong though.

Man just means adult human male. Again includes all and no gender identities belonging to those over 18 born male. A universily understood concept despite what people may say.

PineappleCakes · 13/05/2021 16:36

Sunflowers095
The issue with this approach is that by saying it's only to men's advantage puts forward the idea that all trans people have some secret agenda to take away women's rights

No, I'm not framing my argument against transgender people (I'm sorry if it comes across like that, I quoted transgender man from your example).

The fact is that we live in a patriarchal world, societies are geared towards the benefits and advantages of men, men have been the default for thousands of years. Women's rights in Western society have been hard won and only relatively recently won, so by trying to redefine the meaning of the word "woman" we are losing the ability to protect those hard won rights and recognition.

There are no rights which are denied to transgender people in the UK, transgender people have the same rights as everyone else - what the inclusive argument is arguing for is for the right to redefine the sex classes, and that will disadvantage women (mostly I think) but also be detrimental for men too.

Proudboomer · 13/05/2021 16:37

Brighton has already changed its maternity services language.
We now have chest feeders and birthing parent.

Original poster
ParkItRay · 13/05/2021 16:39

@Proudboomer

Brighton has already changed its maternity services language. We now have chest feeders and birthing parent.
Ridiculous.
OP posts:
Proudboomer · 13/05/2021 16:43

The only thing that gives me hope that one day this nonsense goes away is that my 20 something sons and all their friends including the gay ones think this is all stupid.

Merchymor · 13/05/2021 16:44

@Proudboomer

Brighton has already changed its maternity services language. We now have chest feeders and birthing parent.
See, that's where I draw the line. If you're pregnant then you're very quickly confronted with your biology and it'd be daft and pointless to try and deny any of it with alt language.

Women and people with a cervix or men and people with a prostate for general screening purposes, meh I can't get cross about that.

lifeissweet · 13/05/2021 16:45

I actually think Brighton said they would also continue to use woman and mother too, though.

I can see why they made the addition - and if any NHS Trust in the country is going to be dealing with parents with different gender identities, it is Brighton.

I still think it's a bit crazy and I don't agree with it, but it doesn't help to overstate matters.

NotReallyFeelingIt · 13/05/2021 16:45

At my maternity booking in appointment a few months ago I was not asked my sex and it's not recorded in my notes. I was asked whether my current gender identity accords with the gender I was assigned at birth. Confused A nurse had to ask me that.

Unfortunately I'm in Scotland where damaging gender ideology is absolutely rife and just getting worse and worse, pushed from the top.

Original poster
ParkItRay · 13/05/2021 16:47

@lifeissweet

I actually think Brighton said they would also continue to use woman and mother too, though.

I can see why they made the addition - and if any NHS Trust in the country is going to be dealing with parents with different gender identities, it is Brighton.

I still think it's a bit crazy and I don't agree with it, but it doesn't help to overstate matters.

For me it's just opening the door to more of this craziness though. Okay so for now it includes mother's and women but you can guarantee that won't be good enough for some either, how long before it's exclusively chest feeders or it's no longer women's hospital or women's health etc....

Mother and woman is sufficient because that is what any biological female who has a baby is. Opening the door to this insanity even just a little is madness imo.

OP posts:
Blossomtoes · 13/05/2021 16:47

@ParkItRay

Then it’s wrong, isn’t it?

It's not wrong. Men have prostates.

So do trans women.
Original poster
ParkItRay · 13/05/2021 16:48

Madness and dangerous**

OP posts:
Whatwouldscullydo · 13/05/2021 16:49

And the sex class that trans women belong to is?

Sex class not gender. But sex. What sex has a prostate. And what word is used to describe that sex?

Original poster
ParkItRay · 13/05/2021 16:49

So do trans women

Yes and biologically they are men and are therefore included in the term men when discussing their anatomy.

OP posts:
Duplobuplo · 13/05/2021 16:51

What I don't understand about transmen is what was wrong with being a woman? It feels like such a betrayal. And what has becoming a transman achieved that just not adhering to stereotypes wouldn't have done?

Original poster
ParkItRay · 13/05/2021 16:51

Biologically they are male*

OP posts:
Blossomtoes · 13/05/2021 16:52

@ParkItRay

So do trans women

Yes and biologically they are men and are therefore included in the term men when discussing their anatomy.

Do you know what? I never, ever thought I’d be on this side of this particular argument but you’ve driven me there @ParkItRay. Congratulations. I’m pretty sure that’s a long way from what you intended.
pepsicolagirl · 13/05/2021 16:53

@Duplobuplo

What I don't understand about transmen is what was wrong with being a woman? It feels like such a betrayal. And what has becoming a transman achieved that just not adhering to stereotypes wouldn't have done?
This is something I struggle with too but fortunately I am comfortable in my body and will never have to know the answer I guess.
Thereisroomontheraft · 13/05/2021 16:53

I agree completely op, where or where has all this absolutely insanity come from. Do people have too much time on their hands in the west. Are there not way more pressing issues and people with real problems who need help.