To actually be concerned that my DC will be learning this absolute nonsense

[ParkItRay]

I've been noticing a lot lately on social media, people in the comments referring to 'penis holders', 'chest feeders', 'people with a cervix' etc...

Just reading a thread now on a group I'm in and not a single person is saying the word man or woman (it's a discussion about circumcision and whether it should be banned).

The world has gone fucking mad and I can't stand it. I'm genuinely concerned that my DC are going to grow up thinking this utter nonsense is right.

I feel like the only person who's thinking 'MEN, YOU MEAN FUCKING MEN FOR CHRIST SAKE' as literally everyone on it seems to be buying into this crap.

It's utterly insane.

I'm really holding onto the fact that all the teenagers I know (I'm around a lot of them) don't really believe this stuff. Many are trapped in the "be kind" mindset, so they don't want to upset anyone, but everyone really, truly knows what a man and a woman is and how to tell them apart. Even (or in fact, especially), trans people - otherwise how would they identify that they are trans.

My kids are younger but I tell them frequently that they can wear anything they like, play with anything they like, be anything they like, but it doesn't make them a girl to wear a dress - they're just a boy in a dress (like the david walliams book!) I also tell them their bodies are perfect just as they are, lots of body positivity stuff, and talk to them about puberty and that their bodies will change and it will be weird but everyone feels like that for a bit, and they should just appreciate their bodies for the great things it can do like sport and activities and school work. If the school starts having assemblies or PSHE with stuff from Allsorts or Gendered Intelligence with lots of gender stereotype rubbish, I'll hit the roof.

I've just recently heard that an exam board is no longer collecting data on male and female, but "assigned male at birth (AMAB)" and "assigned female at birth (AFAB)". News to me that anyone assigned my kids genders at birth, I was there and it didn't happen - their sex was observed at the 20 week scan though...

@ParkItRay

Honestly it seems like it's seeping into everything.

As I say, the NHS refers to women and people with a cervix. WOMEN suffices for goodness sake, they are the only ones with a bloody cervix! The fact that something like the NHS is being forced into this crap is scarier too.

I agreed with you up to this point but trans men have a cervix and still need smear tests. It’s one of a very tiny number of instances which makes sense.

about a teacher who apparently self identifies only sometimes as a woman and pupils, parents and staff were to call him Freya (not actual name) on the days he wore a dress and Frank on the days he wore a shirt and trousers

to me it feels like the generation of entitled kids, who grew up with ever hearing the word "no", now have taken over the education and parenting.

@Blossomtoes but transmen are biologically women and they know that (if they don't they have a problem). They know they need cervical smears. If the word woman offends them, that's their problem, not mine.

@Blossomtoes then medically speaking they are a woman and are covered under the name woman surely?

I'm sure transmen are aware that they are biologically female and have female anatomy and therefore would be called women for the purposes of medical procedures.

Unless transmen would really look at that and think 'oh that doesn't apply to me because in my head I'm a man'.

It IS madness! Totally.

I'm going through menopause, feel like crap most of the time, even on HRT. The GPs at my practice seem clueless and the nurses at the practice won't even use the word "menopause." (They say it's embarrassing, wtf?!) I heard on the grapevine that our area has some very good Well Woman clinics where you can go and get real help and support around menopause from professionals who know their stuff. I phoned around. Apparently these Well Woman clinics were shut down several years ago "because they were considered sexist."

Only biological women go through menopause, transwomen don't. We might as well describe maternity hospitals as sexist and shut all the down too.

What "replaced" the WW clnics are "sexual health clinics": you can get contraception there and you can get tested for STDs, that's it. No menopause service. So I am stuck with my clueless GP practice.

'penis holders'

You don't have to be a man to hold a penis.

Unless I've been doing loving a man all wrong.

Yanbu . You cant fix problems.of you can't see them. None of the problems that affect men ams women have gone away we have just lost the ability to be able to talk about them. It's harmful and dangerous and we should not be giving in to people who are triggered by biology because actually that's not kind akd places them on danger too. Especially when you are talking medically. Language should be clear and factual

@TurquoiseLemur

It IS madness! Totally.

I'm going through menopause, feel like crap most of the time, even on HRT. The GPs at my practice seem clueless and the nurses at the practice won't even use the word "menopause." (They say it's embarrassing, wtf?!) I heard on the grapevine that our area has some very good Well Woman clinics where you can go and get real help and support around menopause from professionals who know their stuff. I phoned around. Apparently these Well Woman clinics were shut down several years ago "because they were considered sexist."

Only biological women go through menopause, transwomen don't. We might as well describe maternity hospitals as sexist and shut all the down too.

What "replaced" the WW clnics are "sexual health clinics": you can get contraception there and you can get tested for STDs, that's it. No menopause service. So I am stuck with my clueless GP practice.

That is terrible.

What the hell is sexist about menopause support. Absolute infuriating nonsense.

@ParkItRay

It's not just on here, the NHS website refers to 'people with a cervix' when talking about smear tests as a more widescale example...

How difficult is it to grasp a really simple concept:

Transgender men (biologically women), who have transitioned, don't want to be referred to as females/women. But they have a cervix.

They are a person with a cervix. Why is it so hard to be inclusive?

Is it so difficult to comprehend that yes, this term "people with cervix" will include women but it will also include transgender men?

You mentioned you're worried you'll be the generation who just doesn't get it and you're correct. So many opinions, so little compassion and understanding.

@BuggerBognor

Yes there are places where such terms apparently exist, but let’s not pretend that it is a society wide thing because it really isn’t.

We’re in a sleepy backwater non-diverse and rather vanilla bit of the UK and my son’s prep school has “option 1” and “option 2” uniform instead of boys and girls. I know that’s a low-fat example, but if it can happen here...

Plus DS is surprisingly stubborn in his refusal to wear a boater and dress. Spoilsport.

I wouldn't have a problem with my kids being able to choose skirt or trousers regardless of sex, that would be great. I campaigned to be able to wear trousers to school (and lost). Didn't mean I thought I was a boy though.

How difficult is it to grasp a really simple concept

How ironic...

[quote ParkItRay]@Blossomtoes then medically speaking they are a woman and are covered under the name woman surely?

I'm sure transmen are aware that they are biologically female and have female anatomy and therefore would be called women for the purposes of medical procedures.

Unless transmen would really look at that and think 'oh that doesn't apply to me because in my head I'm a man'.[/quote]
Trans men aren’t medically women, though and it’s really insulting to say “You’re a woman pretending to be a man”. I’m in total agreement with 99% of the arguments made on this thread and elsewhere but I actually agree with this one.

[quote aliloandabanana]@Blossomtoes but transmen are biologically women and they know that (if they don't they have a problem). They know they need cervical smears. If the word woman offends them, that's their problem, not mine.[/quote]
But it obviously is your problem if you can't cope with inclusive language being used for both parties.

You are a person right? Therefore the term "person" applies to you, it's just common sense.

Trans men aren’t medically women

If they have a cervix, yes they are.

@ParkItRay

How difficult is it to grasp a really simple concept

How ironic...

Not really ironic, no. But yes ignore my entire post because it doesn't align with your agenda.

I think it's reductive and extremely insulting.

A trans man is still biological a woman. Even if they have a total hysterectomy, take hormone drugs, grow facial hair and call themselves Darren they are still a woman.
They can live their lives, do whatever they want to their bodies, call themselves whatever they want and I am happy for them to do so if that is what they want but when you peel everything back their chromosomes will still be XX.

Its not inclusive.

Many women have no idea they have a cervix so they would have no idea its about them.

Woman just means adult human female. Its just what someone who's of the female sex becomes when they are an adult. So what's not inclusive about the word woman. It includes all adult human females of any gender identity.

I only hear this stuff on MN.

Never heard anyone say a penis beholder or cervix haver outside of people on MN complaining about it

@YetAnotherSpartacus

Penis holders? Is this code for wankers?

I cannot stand this agenda. Wtf is this world coming to.
Born with a penis - male
Born with a vagina/cervix - female.
I absolutely cannot believe in my daughters high school that she has two friends that are non-binary and have changed their names
It.
I

Woman just means adult human female. Its just what someone who's of the female sex becomes when they are an adult. So what's not inclusive about the word woman. It includes all adult human females of any gender identity

Exactly.

And transmen/women may not want to be called men or women (and I would called someone she or he if they wanted me to) but biologically speaking and for the purposes of medical procedures especially, that is what they are, no amount of feet stomping or 'inclusivity' will change that.

@ParkItRay

Honestly it seems like it's seeping into everything.

As I say, the NHS refers to women and people with a cervix. WOMEN suffices for goodness sake, they are the only ones with a bloody cervix! The fact that something like the NHS is being forced into this crap is scarier too.

I'd say that's fair enough tbh, as long as 'women' is the default and 'people with a cervix' is not the only term used. Trans men do have a cervix and do need access to appropriate healthcare.

@araiwa

I only hear this stuff on MN.

Never heard anyone say a penis beholder or cervix haver outside of people on MN complaining about it

It's on the NHS website...