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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask everyone in the UK to watch this NI documentary

326 replies

NornIronKid · 13/05/2021 10:08

You will (hopefully) be aware of the Ballymurphy Massacre, that has been in the news this week, when innocent civilians were killed by British soldiers in 1971. It has taken 50 years for the victims' names to be cleared of any wrongdoing.

There has been a lot of posts on here mentioning NI over the past years due to Brexit, and it has become clear that many people in GB are not aware of the history. This documentary is from 3 years ago and now showing again on Ch4 - it is a long, difficult but important watch

www.channel4.com/programmes/massacre-at-ballymurphy

OP posts:
DynamoKev · 13/05/2021 18:51

@YouWerePrettyIWasLonely

My parents were from NI and left as trouble was starting. My father was very much of the opinion that as long as the Government ignored its part in the rise of oppressed people with less rights than livestock then there can never be peace.

Britain has a long long history of oppression against Ireland. They starved the people and called it a Famine. They brought in the Black and Tans to murder whomever they liked. They treated Catholics in NI as less than human. They brought in the army to oppress and murder them further when they were fighting for the same rights as the Protestants.

Atrocities have been committed, but once you start saying "The British" you aren't any better than those saying "The Irish". I accept the Famine (or whatever term you prefer) was caused by British People - but it wasn't caused by all of us - at the time my English ancestors were illiterate. They didn't have a vote. They didn't have any hand in starving Irish People - that was the Sir Bufton Tuftons - Upper Class twits in charge as usual.

I was kid during internment and the massacres - my parents opposed it and I never voted for any of it when I was old enough. Many people here were not in favour - but that gets lost in the British Oppression narrative.

WhiskyIrnBru · 13/05/2021 18:55

@Somatronic

This thread shows the ongoing ignorance of British people regarding the role of the British state in Ireland, particularly in the north.

Maybe don't make rude and ignorant comments about things you clearly know nothing about.

I know that your media has always presented a completely one-sided view of these matters, and the BBC continues to do that in many instances, and I gather that your education system ignores the matter, but maybe read a book or watch the documentary or do something to educate yourself on a matter before you talk absolute nonsense about it.

If civilians were murdered by British soldiers in the streets, with the media carrying stories fed to them by the British army that all those killed were in the IRA which was an absolute lie, then the matter isn't ever investigated and those who carried out the murders never face any accountability whatsoever, you know, it's hard to "move on" from that.

The British army was actively involved in the murders of civilians through Loyalist paramilitaries too. It's hard to move on from that.

I'm not sure why some British people, including some on this thread don't think that Irish people deserve the same basic rights as British people. In some cases, including some responses to this thread, it's clear that you don't seem to view us as quite human. It may be time to have a look at yourselves in that regard too.

If someone stands in your driveway, or cuts down a tree near your house, Mumsnetters are furiously posting threads about the injustice of it, but the British army murdering women and children in the street in the north of Ireland is fine. Madness.

Absolutely spot bloody on.

The ignorance in this thread is stinking.

Disgusting.

FedUpAtHomeTroels · 13/05/2021 19:27

The thing is you can't ask people to watch this, because you want them to change the way they think to match what you think.
Saying they are wrong thinking and you are the only one who right.
Everyone has their opinions. If it's a differing opinion from yours, it doesn't make it any less valid.

NornIronKid · 13/05/2021 19:36

@FedUpAtHomeTroels

The thing is you can't ask people to watch this, because you want them to change the way they think to match what you think. Saying they are wrong thinking and you are the only one who right. Everyone has their opinions. If it's a differing opinion from yours, it doesn't make it any less valid.
It is a documentary based on facts backed up by an official inquest. What have opinions got to do with it?
OP posts:
MindtheBelleek · 13/05/2021 19:38

@FedUpAtHomeTroels

The thing is you can't ask people to watch this, because you want them to change the way they think to match what you think. Saying they are wrong thinking and you are the only one who right. Everyone has their opinions. If it's a differing opinion from yours, it doesn't make it any less valid.
Everyone doesn’t have a right to their own facts, though. Hmm
Hankunamatata · 13/05/2021 19:41

More importantly people should watch the drama documentary - 3 families - about the complete lack of abortion access in NI

Ginmakesitallok · 13/05/2021 19:46

I moved away from ni when I was 18. I lived in a small rural community, with staunch protestant roots. We were never taught anything about Irish history. I was raised thinking ni was British, that Catholics who got killed were ira, or ira supporters, that the ruc and the army were on "our" side and that basically if "themuns" would stop killing then everything would be OK. I spent summers on holiday camps which brought us together with Catholic kids, but never ever spoke to a Catholic person about what life was like for them. We believed what the media told us.

It's only since I left I started to learn more about Irish history, looking in from the outside gives a new perspective and a new understanding of my own prejudices. Living there didn't give me the truth, it gave me "a" truth.

FedUpAtHomeTroels · 13/05/2021 19:47

You won't change opinions of people who had family in the UK military back then, they will support their family to the end just as those who had family fighting with the IRA would. Even after an inquest.
I'm not disputing facts.
I watched this stuff on the news each evening as a little kid. It was horrifying, and not something I'd want to happen again.

Bloodypunkrockers · 13/05/2021 19:48

@FedUpAtHomeTroels

The thing is you can't ask people to watch this, because you want them to change the way they think to match what you think. Saying they are wrong thinking and you are the only one who right. Everyone has their opinions. If it's a differing opinion from yours, it doesn't make it any less valid.
It is less valid if it is incorrect though
Abitofalark · 13/05/2021 19:49

What's the date, time, duration etc for when is it on?

StoneofDestiny · 13/05/2021 20:10

That's because any army, or agent of the government should be held to a higher standard than organisations that are, depending on your point of view, terrorists or guerillas. And what ever your opinion of them if they were caught they went to prison with convictions for murder / manslaughter or other charges.The fact that the British army, with the approval of the government were able to murder British people including children and not only get away with it but not even be investigated for it is abhorrent, or at least it should be

If this had happened on the streets of anywhere in the UK apart from NI you'd get different responses OP. Imagine it happening on the streets of Guildford, Swansea, Perth, Newcastle? There wouldn't be any 'well there are criminals living in those countries who have killed others'.

Geez

wotchhha · 13/05/2021 20:21

On MN the troubles was the Irish bombing London and Manchester.

This!

No acknowledgement of what actually happened in NI.

Always framed around the IRA largely ignoring the loyalist terror groups.

Comparing the British Army to the above.

wotchhha · 13/05/2021 20:23

Everyone has their opinions. If it's a differing opinion from yours, it doesn't make it any less valid.

I think this is Trumps argument!

FatherBuzzCagney · 13/05/2021 20:47

Thank you OP. I didn't know about this documentary and have just watched the first half (will watch the rest tomorrow). It's horrifying.

NornIronKid · 13/05/2021 20:52

@StoneofDestiny Totally agree with you

OP posts:
NornIronKid · 13/05/2021 20:54

@Abitofalark It's on All 4 (catch up) and is an hr and 10 minutes long

OP posts:
RuggerHug · 13/05/2021 20:55

I know what people are saying to try and make others understand but please stop saying if they were killing British citizens anywhere else there would be outrage. These people were Irish and were killed precisely because they were Irish.

NornIronKid · 13/05/2021 20:56

@FatherBuzzCagney It's definitely hard to watch in parts, I went through a mix of emotions!

OP posts:
NornIronKid · 13/05/2021 20:56

Thank you to everyone who has said they'll watch it

OP posts:
Nightbear · 13/05/2021 21:24

They were British citizens.

Newmum110 · 13/05/2021 21:58

People need to know the history of their country. Do you think germans are saying we need to forget about it now? Some of the comments are pure ignorance. Yes there was wrongs on both sides but that doesn't wipe out what the British army did to the innocent people they were meant to be protecting. If the Irish army landed in to a loyalist area & shot innocent people I'm sure the good people on MN would be calling for it to be remembered.
Finally as mentioned above perhaps Britain should not have invaded in the first place, that aspect seems to be completely forgotten. Innocent Irish people have been murdered for years by the British Forces & no ignoring of history will remove that fact.

Abitofalark · 13/05/2021 22:03

[quote NornIronKid]@Abitofalark It's on All 4 (catch up) and is an hr and 10 minutes long[/quote]
It's not a live broadcast on Channel 4? I can't get catch up on 4. Is the documentary available on youtube?

JaneJeffer · 13/05/2021 22:15

They are difficult issues and Ireland is doing so well with it all.
Ireland?

NornIronKid · 13/05/2021 22:20

@Abitofalark It was shown on Ch4 last night, as a last minute schedule change due to the inquiry. I'm not aware of it being available anywhere else at the minute

OP posts:
CoolCatTaco · 13/05/2021 22:22

Really Nightbear? I'm from NI, identify as Irish - as is my right - and have an Irish passport. I am not British.