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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask everyone in the UK to watch this NI documentary

326 replies

NornIronKid · 13/05/2021 10:08

You will (hopefully) be aware of the Ballymurphy Massacre, that has been in the news this week, when innocent civilians were killed by British soldiers in 1971. It has taken 50 years for the victims' names to be cleared of any wrongdoing.

There has been a lot of posts on here mentioning NI over the past years due to Brexit, and it has become clear that many people in GB are not aware of the history. This documentary is from 3 years ago and now showing again on Ch4 - it is a long, difficult but important watch

www.channel4.com/programmes/massacre-at-ballymurphy

OP posts:
sashh · 13/05/2021 11:55

NCNCNCNCNCNCNCNCNC

Start with "The 12th day of July" by by Joan Lingard.

It's a children / YP fiction book written and set in the 1970s, I'm not saying this to be flippant but this is what started my interest as a teenager. It's the first in a series of books and it gives a child's perspective an a pinch of history.

MindtheBelleek · 13/05/2021 11:56

@UhtredRagnarson

On MN the Troubles was the IRA bombing London and Manchester.

On MN the troubles was the Irish bombing London and Manchester.

Alas, this is entirely true in my experience of 20 years living in England.
FuriousCheekyFucker · 13/05/2021 11:57

@DioneTheDiabolist

What did the loyalist riots in Derry this have to do with the Ballymurphy Massacre inquest *@FuriousCheekyFucker*?
Nothing at all, which is exactly my point.

If you cannot leave events that happened half a century ago behind, and insist on picking at the scabs of old wounds, don't be upset when your children normalise violence, resistance to legitimate authority and distrust of the government.

Oh wait, you were agreeing with me?

Xenia · 13/05/2021 11:59

There was also the damage the IRA did however (and I write that as someone with Catholic relatives in and from Northern Ireland)......

Both sides need to move on.

Wolfiefan · 13/05/2021 12:01

Totally agree @Somatronic.
Irish history is something many over here are totally ignorant about.
(English person who grew up ignorant. Now married to a N Irish man. Slightly less ignorant now. Blush)

MindtheBelleek · 13/05/2021 12:02

@Xenia

There was also the damage the IRA did however (and I write that as someone with Catholic relatives in and from Northern Ireland)......

Both sides need to move on.

There are at least three logical fallacies so egregious in that post that I'm finding it difficult to believe the poster purports to be a lawyer.
RedTitsMcGinty · 13/05/2021 12:03

There was also the damage the IRA did however (and I write that as someone with Catholic relatives in and from Northern Ireland)......

Both sides need to move on.

Did you miss the bit where the people murdered were nothing whatsoever to do with the IRA?

Nightbear · 13/05/2021 12:04

The British Army murdered innocent British civilians. How do you ‘move on’ from that without acknowledging that it happened? It’s taken 50 years to get an acknowledgment that they were innocent civilians and an apology.

UhtredRagnarson · 13/05/2021 12:11

@Xenia

There was also the damage the IRA did however (and I write that as someone with Catholic relatives in and from Northern Ireland)......

Both sides need to move on.

Which side are you suggesting the ballymurphy victims were on?
Original poster
NornIronKid · 13/05/2021 12:21

Which side are you suggesting the ballymurphy victims were on?

I'd also like to know which side @Xenia would say the British Army was on?

OP posts:
Welshcakes03 · 13/05/2021 12:27

Keeping divide and hatred alive I see. When are people going to wake up and see what the media are doing Hmm
By producing programs like this is for one reason and one reason only... to keep people angry aggressive and divided.
This is what is taught in school racism sexism feminism everyone is angry about something it's to keep you in that state of mind.
What a awful time too be alive right now.

emilyfrost · 13/05/2021 12:29

@Slub

Lots of innocent civilians murdered by the IRA too. Do you have a link to a documentary on that?
This.
Original poster
NornIronKid · 13/05/2021 12:31

@ZestyDragon

I'm not from NI but I live here now and I am disgusted by some of the replies here - sadly they don't surprise me at all. I have also lived in London and learnt early on how ignorant people can be about NI and what was done by the British here. Those people that died were accused of being IRA members by the British government. Two of them appear to have been murder whilst trying to help others that were injured. None had guns and none had a history with the IRA.

Since living here I have heard so many horror stories of internment etc. The fact is that so many that were not involved with the IRA were arrested, tortured or had to escape across the border to avoid it. And many of these people had done nothing wrong at all. Mind you....some joined the IRA afterwards and to be honest, that's hardly a shock given what happened to them.

I am a Catholic and am dating a man from a Loyalist area btw. He doesn't want me coming to stay at his ever so has to come to me. He is worried my car will be burnt out for being a Catholic living in a Republican area daring to be in his town. That's in 2021. Things aren't that much blood better it seems.

Yes, unfortunately the Troubles have not gone away to the extent that most people outside NI think they have. Over 80% of our (already lacking) social housing is in areas that are considered solely Catholic or Protestant. As are cheaper private rentals. We pay a fortune to rent privately in a 'mixed' area because, even though we are both Atheists, I am from one side and my partner is from the other. Most schools have the same issue, we are lucky to live near Integrated ones
OP posts:
Xenia · 13/05/2021 12:39

They are difficult issues and Ireland is doing so well with it all. I have nothing but praise. I do think both sides need to let the past go (and yes I do know who did what on each side).

MindtheBelleek · 13/05/2021 12:41

@Welshcakes03

Keeping divide and hatred alive I see. When are people going to wake up and see what the media are doing Hmm By producing programs like this is for one reason and one reason only... to keep people angry aggressive and divided. This is what is taught in school racism sexism feminism everyone is angry about something it's to keep you in that state of mind. What a awful time too be alive right now.
And what frame of mind would you say was an appropriate one in which to contemplate the state-sponsored murder of civilians by their own government? Would 'anger', as well as dismay, horror and incomprehension etc, not strike you as an entirely appropriate response? Hmm
FlaviaAlbiaWantsLangClegBack · 13/05/2021 12:43

It's so strange. Posters who would rather NI people "move on" and think the families of innocents should shut up and live with the injustice because someone somewhere else did something bad, have you no compassion or shame whatsoever?

Is it so hard to put yourself in someone else's shoes for a minute and understand that just by existing and being in the the area where you lived, you could be shot by partroopers and your murder dismissed because the army said you deserved it?

My family are from a unionist background and my DF has told me they always avoided the paras because they shot first and asked questions later. This verdict isn't surprising.

HannaHat · 13/05/2021 12:47

I’ll watch it. I’m 41 and ashamedly know very little about it.

MadeForThis · 13/05/2021 12:55

The people in Ballymurphy weren't members of the IRA. They weren't fighting. They were shot because the British Army drove into a Catholic housing estate and started shooting.

To cover it up the claimed the victims were all members of the IRA. They weren't. They were in their own housing estate and were murdered.

This needs to be acknowledged.

The fact that the same regiment went on to commit Bloody Sunday just further emphasises how truly dangerous they were. They had a licence to kill and knew it.

Saying that the IRA committed murder is not relevant to this issue. Unless you think that because the IRA shot soldiers it gave them the right to shoot any Catholic.

Bloodypunkrockers · 13/05/2021 12:59

@Xenia

There was also the damage the IRA did however (and I write that as someone with Catholic relatives in and from Northern Ireland)......

Both sides need to move on.

Both sides?

The IRA and the UDF/UDA whatever?

That's the two "sides"

What is your view of the British army murdering their own citizens?

DynamoKev · 13/05/2021 13:01

@MadeForThis

The people in Ballymurphy weren't members of the IRA. They weren't fighting. They were shot because the British Army drove into a Catholic housing estate and started shooting.

To cover it up the claimed the victims were all members of the IRA. They weren't. They were in their own housing estate and were murdered.

This needs to be acknowledged.

The fact that the same regiment went on to commit Bloody Sunday just further emphasises how truly dangerous they were. They had a licence to kill and knew it.

Saying that the IRA committed murder is not relevant to this issue. Unless you think that because the IRA shot soldiers it gave them the right to shoot any Catholic.

Exactly - and there must have been knowledge and collusion at the very highest levels in the UK Government.
idontlikealdi · 13/05/2021 13:07

As the daughter of someone from NI I think any documentary should be watched to expand knowledge, across all sides. I spent a long time in NI as a kid, it is massively misunderstood, in England in particular although I do hope that is being broken down.

Education is key.

Isitsixoclockalready · 13/05/2021 13:08

Lot of whataboutery going on at the beginning of the thread. I have no knowledge of this specific incident so I shall watch a documentary on it. That doesn't negate from the reprehensible actions carried out by the IRA - one doesn't negate the other.

Bloodypunkrockers · 13/05/2021 13:08

@Slub

Lots of innocent civilians murdered by the IRA too. Do you have a link to a documentary on that?
Try iplayer

Or YouTube

Not sure why that's relevant to this thread though

Isitsixoclockalready · 13/05/2021 13:12

If we ignore history, we are doomed to repeat it. We don't have to remain stuck in the past but we can't decide at some point that we should just ignore historical events.

weleasewoderick23 · 13/05/2021 13:12

@MintyMabel

You can’t compare killings on both sides when one side was the British army, the other a para military group. The army was sent there to try and restore order, not to massacre civilians.

Agreed. I don’t expect the British armed forces to murder innocent civilians no matter which conflict they are involved in.

Like the Black and Tans were sent to restore order?? They were absolute bastards.

What a lot of English people don't seem to realise is that the British have been suppressing the Irish for hundreds of years. What are the Irish supposed to do?

I'm not Irish but I was brought up a catholic in an Irish catholic community and the stories I heard were heartbreaking