To ask for a polite way to explain maternity leave is not ‘a year off’?

[TurquoiseKiss]

Returned to work this week after maternity leave of 1 year. All my colleagues are nice people so I don’t think this has been meant maliciously but a few have followed “welcome back” with “I wish I could take a year off” / “what did you get up to? Any nice trips?” / “you’re looking well, must have been nice to have a year break from work” (obviously this is what happened but the tone was as if I’d gone to lay on a beach somewhere and had ‘me time’ for 12 months!).

Suggestions please of the nicest way to say: “I birthed a baby, spent 5 fairly traumatic nights on a postnatal ward with no visitors allowed, haven’t had a full nights sleep since last April, didn’t go on any trips because y’know I took the time away from work to start raising a tiny person not seek out cheap last minute jollys…Comprende!?”

Yours,
Tired Mum

C section is major abdominal surgery. No one would expect any other kind of major abdominal surgery (with the added joy of looking after a newborn thrown in) to be a speedy recovery. And women are discharged far too early.

If people think this expectation to bounce back isn't sexist then they are seriously deluded

It's not a job , it's a joy.

Not for the 1 in 4 women who suffer from PND it's not

Many women would love that opportunity.

So what? Because someone else would love it suddenly we HAVE to enjoy something. No one ever says that about anything else

Many men would love a year off to bond with their baby and bottle feed them.

Obviously not as shared parental leave has had so little uptake it is being reviewed

Women have given birth for millennia.

And? What's your point? It doesn't get easier the more other people do it

A year off work to bond with your baby is wonderful.

Not for everyone

WHY - I'm actually asking - is it so hard to understand maternity leave isn't a joyous bonding experience for every woman? I was so excited to get back to work I could barely sleep. And I don't feel the slightest bit guilty about feeling that way.

[quote Fixitup2]@Ajl46 It’s quite well known that 6 weeks is the post partum recovery time. Of course sleep deprivation lasts longer than that for most, but the majority of women’s bodies takes 6 weeks. No it doesn’t take into account mental recovery. Also some countries do only take 6 weeks, the US being one where most women take 6 weeks.[/quote]
Well then to be in ship shape to get back to work after 6 weeks you'd have to work h til the day you give birth. Which is not good for mum or baby.

Well I’d say “ it’s a year off one job but very much a year on another. It’s hard work. The sleepless nights, the crying, the tantrums, the overwhelming sense of dread you are doing something wrong and you know no jollies or even proper support on account of this whole pandemic we’re having. Then again, it’s probably been challenging working during a pandemic too right. Least I didn’t have to juggle both like some people”

But that’s the point @FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop. You were desperate to go back to work, so you did. I had PND so went back to work 3 months early to save my mental health. Uptake for shared parental leave is low because of the gender pay gap. My DH earns 20k more than me, I manage 3 people, he doesnt manage any and I have more responsibility. We couldn’t afford to share leave. No one is forcing new Mums to have more than the statutory recovery time off, it’s a choice.

@FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop

C section is major abdominal surgery. No one would expect any other kind of major abdominal surgery (with the added joy of looking after a newborn thrown in) to be a speedy recovery. And women are discharged far too early.

If people think this expectation to bounce back isn't sexist then they are seriously deluded

Indeed, 6 weeks is the minimum recovery time for such surgery.

Look, I don't have anything against women are fortunate enough to recover easily or more easily than others. Nor do I suggest that most women recover the same way in the same time frame. Or however my opinions seem to be misunderstood.

What I believe is that the disservice we do to women as individuals or as a group by minimising the experience for some people is at least as damaging as exaggerating the physical toll for others.

It's about ensuring that everyone gets fair treatment. Thankfully, UK law currently means this is (broadly) so, but we mustn't take it for granted, especially when so many people of all genders seem so judgemental about other women's lived experiences.

That isn't self-indulgent, it's demonstrating humanity.

We all know some people 'milk the system', but it's also well evidenced that many women are still socially and economically disadvantaged by motherhood.

I really struggle to understand why a comment that some people may take much longer to recover, or never will has caused such offence. That is a fact, not a judgement on others. And unfortunately, it is also a fact that medical bias against women's health issues (and post partum issues) still means that women suffer needlessly, often for years. (Just as it's a fact that there is bias against men's mental health issues.)

This thread is so depressing, and a perfect example of how little so many value traditionally female work such as child rearing. Raising children is work. Not all work is paid.

The issue here is not someone saying “you were off work” to the OP, it’s the implication that she’s been dossing about, and really it suggests/hints that women on maternity leave are skiving, it’s feeding in to the narrative that mothers are lazy and entitled, a drain on society and on the workplace.

I was very fortunate when I got back to work after my first maternity leave (yes I took a year out of the office - I used my annual leave at the end and took the last month unpaid), I was a bit wobbly, and I was fully embraced back by my colleagues who made me feel better about missing my Dd by saying “you can enjoy a nice hot cup of tea now.” And they aren’t even all parents. They just understood I hadn’t been sat scratching my arse for the last year and may find it a bit hard to adjust being back.

It’s not relevant whether I enjoyed mat leave or not, as that isn’t what the OP is asking, so I don’t understand all these people popping up saying how wonderful and sunny it was for them.

It is despicable so many posters have told the OP to get over herself. Such a horrible and unwarranted response. It’s particularly horrible that one poster said “five traumatic days in hospital, needs a year off” or something to that effect, it completely belittles the struggles of women after giving birth, physically and mentally, that can last for many months and years after birth. Women who almost die giving birth, why is that any different to almost dying in some other way that can cause PTSD or similar? Should we all just shut up and not talk of our birth experiences??

@Fixitup2

But that’s the point *@FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop*. You were desperate to go back to work, so you did. I had PND so went back to work 3 months early to save my mental health. Uptake for shared parental leave is low because of the gender pay gap. My DH earns 20k more than me, I manage 3 people, he doesnt manage any and I have more responsibility. We couldn’t afford to share leave. No one is forcing new Mums to have more than the statutory recovery time off, it’s a choice.

It's a statutory right, which every single woman should take as much as she wants without judgement comment or speculation from others.

I'd love to see evidence that suggests shared parental leave has a low uptake due to the gender pay gap. Plenty of couples on the same wages. Not everyone has a £20k difference to their OH

Well said @hazandduck

I can't believe people would rather tell the OP to 'get over herself' rather than challenge this low level but very prevalent and damaging sexism.

Rule no 1 of feminism 1 never underestimate the ferocity of internalised misogyny

Good lord. If a bit of small talk and making friendly conversation gets met with this type of reaction.... Yes they’re ignorant to your particular experiences. Take it on the chin. Give it a year or so and you’ll be asked how your weekend was on a Monday morning... you might have had a shit weekend but how are they to know? It’s the same principle.

It is a year off though. You are entitled to your opinion on it too.

If someone says they’d love a year off or a holiday simply reply ‘yeah me too! The first year of parenting is body exhausting but I wouldn’t change it for the world’. Polite but would get your point across tactfully.

‘Bloody exhausting’ I mean - well it is!

I think it depends on the baby.. everyone is different. Mine was not an ‘easy’ baby and I finally managed to sleep more than 45 mins at a time at 8 months old. No being off work is not a holiday and being at work would have been much much easier and perhaps preferable on many days. Reflux, tongue tie, mastitis and uninterested GP’s don’t make the great makings for a year ‘off’. You are not unreasonable to feel this way. They either don’t have children or have had babies that slept.

This is winding me up and I need to step away from it as I’ve already been short with too many people, but the abdominal surgery point! Gah!

I had an lifesaving abdominal hysterectomy a couple of years back. Hypervolemic shock, blood transfusions, the whole shebang. Went into menopause overnight in my early 30s. No children so my chance of having biological children also went overnight. I’m still traumatised by it.

I went back to work after 6 weeks because I was only entitled to SSP and I couldn’t live on that.

My point isn’t that every woman should only be entitled to 6 weeks mat leave, before anyone starts. Despite being fairly unimpressed by this thread, I do understand why mat leave is important for women to have. It’s just that when we’re talking about women needing a year off to recover from physical surgery and the degradation of employment rights, it’s worth keeping in mind that some women go through the same experience - minus a newborn - and have no choice but to go back to work.

@trixies

This is winding me up and I need to step away from it as I’ve already been short with too many people, but the abdominal surgery point! Gah!

I had an lifesaving abdominal hysterectomy a couple of years back. Hypervolemic shock, blood transfusions, the whole shebang. Went into menopause overnight in my early 30s. No children so my chance of having biological children also went overnight. I’m still traumatised by it.

I went back to work after 6 weeks because I was only entitled to SSP and I couldn’t live on that.

My point isn’t that every woman should only be entitled to 6 weeks mat leave, before anyone starts. Despite being fairly unimpressed by this thread, I do understand why mat leave is important for women to have. It’s just that when we’re talking about women needing a year off to recover from physical surgery and the degradation of employment rights, it’s worth keeping in mind that some women go through the same experience - minus a newborn - and have no choice but to go back to work.

@trixies gets it. Although I'm sorry you went through that. This thread spiralled. No one NEEDS a year off for a CS.

@Geraniumrose333

I think it depends on the baby.. everyone is different. Mine was not an ‘easy’ baby and I finally managed to sleep more than 45 mins at a time at 8 months old. No being off work is not a holiday and being at work would have been much much easier and perhaps preferable on many days. Reflux, tongue tie, mastitis and uninterested GP’s don’t make the great makings for a year ‘off’. You are not unreasonable to feel this way. They either don’t have children or have had babies that slept.

Now imagine all those things, except you couldn't afford to take more than a few weeks' maternity leave.

This is where the frustration comes from. The posters who are saying that not even a part of their whole year off is remotely pleasant
or anything other than necessary health-wise, and purgatory.

Women who have to go back to work don't magically have easy births, bounce back after two days and have magic babies who sleep all night and feed like a dream. But all the "but you need a year off to get over this, and breastfeeding is just like going to work" stuff is frankly ridiculous.

Sorry you were so ill @trixies it sounds awful. I don't want to trivialise your ordeal but really and truly having a difficult refluxing baby was physically very gruelling and emotionally so hard. Everyone would know not to say "how was your time off, you look relaxed" to you after such a horrible surgical experience but mothers can go through all kinds of trauma too and it seems super common to assume all was fine.

The critical thing is nobody knows who they're talking to and the experience they have had.

And for all those saying a baby is a lifestyle choice- consider how far your working hours are also a lifestyle choice. Beyond people in that hard situation of v low income, SSP etc, many of us could probably work fewer hours for less money and have more "holiday". We are still allowed to find work tiring and rail against its restrictions.

Women who have to go back to work don't magically have easy births, bounce back after two days and have magic babies who sleep all night and feed like a dream.

But....aside from 2020 when we all did everything- if you go back to work someone else has your difficult baby in the day? It's still pure hell but who are you to say that 8 hours work plus 16 hours screamy poorly baby is harder than 24 hours screamy poorly baby?

It's so not a competition..Nobody is saying women on mat leave have it specially hard just that it's not easy for everyone.

@Whitegrapewine I find it slightly ironic that you’re explaining to me how fortunate I am that people instinctively knew not to be insensitive about what I went through, right after telling me that you’re sorry that I went through infertility in my early 30s, but having a difficult reflux baby was really hard for you.

Like most of the unsolicited comments around parenthood - smile and nod, and repeat!

I usually comment that I go to work for a rest!

Quite

With my second I was back (albiet pt and from home) by 3m, and exclusively breastfeeding (not by choice, long story...). I was doing KIT days within 6w. Baby woke up 10-15 times a night, and then I got up and worked. For 2y now I've balanced working with night wakings. The idea that this is somehow easier than being on maternity leave for a year is laughable. Early returners don't do work instead of the tough bits of Parenthood, we do both, often simultaneously.

I certainly don't begrudge anyone maternity leave just because mine was short, but I don't think people who take a year appreciate how incredibly difficult it is in comparison to do both.

[quote trixies]@Whitegrapewine I find it slightly ironic that you’re explaining to me how fortunate I am that people instinctively knew not to be insensitive about what I went through, right after telling me that you’re sorry that I went through infertility in my early 30s, but having a difficult reflux baby was really hard for you.[/quote]
Truly. What a thoughtless reply despite not wanting to trivialise your experience. Sorry for what you went through.

I am very sorry if my comment was hurtful. My children also came to me in a very unconventional way after many years of infertility and illness so I would not want to be insensitive to that at all.

My example was about how an illness in general would never be trivialised, (not yours specifically, any illness) while the experience of caring for a baby could, for all anyone knows, be as traumatic for the person concerned as an illness might be.

It is genuinely true that - for me - there were times with my first baby which felt harder and more traumatic than much of my fertility related surgery, and the darkest times of infertility, had done. For me, only. I have no idea how my suffering compared to yours, and I am not in competition. I'm really sorry for your losses and difficulties.

Well I do apologise for saving for years so I could afford to take unpaid maternity leave. My child had such severe reflux that he could not be laid flat and only slept in a sling, meaning that he could not attend any nursery (not that I could afford that). My family live abroad and with Covid am obviously unable to access any help. I am obviously extremely grateful for my child but I also went through a tough year. I suffered with post partum haemorrhages, fractured coccyx and PND. And also... breastfeeding comes naturally for some babies and not for others. I say babies because it it not the mothers fault when it doesn’t work. Perhaps if you had a very difficult breastfeeding experience you would see that on some days (most for me) it would have been easier to go to work.