Why is MN so horrible to SAHMs?

[Sweak]

I'm sure this will go down like a lead balloon, but it's been bothering me.

Every post I see written by a sahm, no matter what her issue is, has at least 5 posters telling her she must get a job Or implying she's lazy and even worse 'contributes nothing.'

Lots of posts under the guise of telling women they need to protect themselves financially are criticising this choice (not always but many). I would never dream of criticising a mother for working so why is it acceptable to criticise those who decide to stay at home to be with their children? (I claim zero benefits fyi in case that's a suggestion). I accept that a very very long period out of work will leave you vulnerable if you split due pension, but 5 years or so? The pre school years...I don't think so. Obviously being a sahp is only going to work if you have a decent partner who shares income.

And finally so many posters implying that by being a sahm you are making it basically impossible to be employable ever again unless you run the PTA!

Full disclosure...I'm a sahm, and have been for four years, but I've decided to return to work. I've secured a job for sept (teacher), and got the second job I had an interview for so the suggestion sahm are making themselves unemployable for having a few years out doesn't ring true! However due to MN my confidence about getting a job was so low.

Can't we just support each others choices in life even if they differ to our own?

Yeah it goes both ways OP!

On mumsnet as a working ft mum I've been told why did I have a child if I was going to let strangers bring him up..... (not true he attends nursery which he loved)
That I'm damaging my child by sending him to nursery
That my DS will have attachment issues for his whole life because he goes to nursery
That I'm insulting to SAHM because I have said I couldn't do it and enjoyed going back to work..... Etc etc etc 🙄

I have a huge respect for sahp 10 months of maternity leave and I was going bananas about only child related conversation all day at mum and baby groups! Not all are like this but the ones I went to jeez saying I was going back to work ft I might as well have said I was worshipping Satan!

@paloma10

Most longer-term SAHMs I know who don’t go back to work when the kids are in school have no intention of returning to their old careers. I think your perspective changes over these years maybe? Many retrain and eventually work for themselves; or they start up all sorts of businesses (or not). Property redevelopment is a big one and they do it in the side. Counsellors and therapists are careers that you can retrain for and still be in control of how many hours you work. If your husband has a diverse business / investment portfolio it’s common to become involved in that to some extent too. Many set up charities or they do all sorts of things to be honest - the list is endless. The point is, they were never planning or worried about whether they would struggle to get back into their olds roles and that’s not really the mindset.

Well based on that post Paloma you’re describing educated and wealthy people so even in the event of a relationship break up, it’s likely there’s still going to be enough wealth that each partner is still reasonably comfortable. That’s great but it’s not representative of the majority of people is it?

There are plenty of studies that show women are disproportionately financially impacted by divorce. And then there are the women who don’t even have the legal protection that having been married would have given them!

It’s really not about assuming all relationships will break down as a pp seems to think 🙄 nor even discouraging women from ever being sahms. For me, it’s about encouraging women to make informed decisions that include their own needs/best interests when society continually tells mothers to put themselves behind everyone else.

It seems OP you and other posters did weigh up the potential financial/career impact and concluded you were ok with it. That’s great but there have been so many threads here from so many women who genuinely never even realised they were taking a risk on their earnings and career advancement or even the security of the roof over their (and their dc) heads. It really has shocked me over the years so I’m afraid I’m never going to avoid pointing out to a poster that they are potentially vulnerable for fear of annoying or offending those who are satisfied they aren’t.

She is owning her own choices changeruset . I agree OP, although I also think people are more aware of posts which criticise their own lifestyles.
Life is risky - there are upsides and downsides to everything and so much of whether a person has security hinges on their individual circumstances, regardless of their employment status.

@Fixitup2

Mumsnet is just awful to everyone sometimes. The SAHM threads get some working Mums saying get a job and contribute but equally working mums get told by SAHM that they love their children too much, want to raise their own children etc implying working mums don’t.

This.

Mumsnet is often simply a very good illustration of the sad fact that many (not all, but one hell of a lot) women enjoy denigrating others’ choices. Both SAHM and WOHM are equally guilty of this. Lots of snipping and sniping and nasty comments whichever side of the argument you are.

I think most of the posts on here are generally about concern. Remember posters are only responding to the ops issue they have raised and sought advice on. I am on here a lot and I’d say at least ninety percent of the threads where rhe woman is being abused, dumped, cheated on, whatever, there is the line “but I can’t afford to leave, I’ve no money, I don’t work”.

It’s very sad, but very common. Suggesting that getting a job in these instances is spot on. It gives financial independence. And choice.

Yes there are some cunty comments from both stay at home mums and those who work but generally posts are in response to an issue rhe op has raised, and with that issue she states she’s no choice as she’s no money,

@Sweak I'm on the fence here, because I do see some nasty comments about SAHMs, but I see positive helpful stuff too.

And, as a few posters have said, some posters are horrible to others too, not just SAHMs. I did click YANBU though, because I do see vitriol aimed at SAHMs some days...

I don’t get it either OP. I probably won’t be an SAHP when I have kids out of financial need to work but I’d bloody love to and think contact with one primary caregiver the majority of the time is best for development. I wouldn’t sacrifice those precious years if I could afford not to, especially not ‘just in case’ I one day wanted to have a certain promotion or whatever. As long as you’ll be financially OK then time is precious too. Money isn’t everything and the time you give your kids now also has a worth all of its own.

@LolaSmiles

You get the odd dickhead, but mainly I don’t think people here are anti-SAHM, just pro-women not becoming completely financially dependent on a man and leaving themselves vulnerable This is spot on. There seems to be some deliberate confusion between giving practical advice (eg. Check your financial situation, don't list out that you're a PA/chef/educator when you apply for jobs because an interview panel is not going to be impressed by how much you talk up family admin), and the few arseholes who seem to dislike the SAHP choice.

I'm not deliberately confusing anything. I think being a sahp is a choice that needs careful consideration. In my situation I didn't think, and still don't, that it makes me particularly vulnerable. Of course that's not true of everyone. Yet even on this post it's been suggested to me I haven't truly understood the long term financial implications of my decision (not by you)...it's this sort of patronising tone I'm taking about, not just the overt horrible comments.

As I said upthread, it’s irritating and tedious when any negative opinion about a SAHM is assumed to be jealousy. It’s quite an arrogant assumption if you think about it!

There's no other reason why anyone would be so vile, it's resentment and jealousy pure and simple.

You can decide staying home is not for you, each to their own, but being that nasty?

I am not defined by my job. I don't even tell people exactly what I do, I keep it vague, but I am exactly the same in a more junior role, if I am made redundant or on maternity leave.

What I do a lot is working people miserable in their jobs, feeling pressured or undervalued, disorganised and running around like headless chicken to try to catch up on life, complaining that "life admin" is a full time job , people who live for their Friday evening.

These are the people who I suspect are so jealous. Plus people playing martyr about having to juggle WFH in the pandemic and homeschooling.
Not fun by all means, but the drama!

So SAH mums are clearly resented by some bitter people.

I'm not deliberately confusing anything. I think being a sahp is a choice that needs careful consideration. In my situation I didn't think, and still don't, that it makes me particularly vulnerable. Of course that's not true of everyone. Yet even on this post it's been suggested to me I haven't truly understood the long term financial implications of my decision (not by you)...it's this sort of patronising tone I'm taking about, not just the overt horrible comments.

The issue is that when it works, it just works and that's great . There's nothing more left to say and pointless to think about the what ifs . But when it doesn't, it can go horribly wrong and there's fuck all you can do about it.

@motherloaded

As I said upthread, it’s irritating and tedious when any negative opinion about a SAHM is assumed to be jealousy. It’s quite an arrogant assumption if you think about it!

There's no other reason why anyone would be so vile, it's resentment and jealousy pure and simple.

You can decide staying home is not for you, each to their own, but being that nasty?

I am not defined by my job. I don't even tell people exactly what I do, I keep it vague, but I am exactly the same in a more junior role, if I am made redundant or on maternity leave.

What I do a lot is working people miserable in their jobs, feeling pressured or undervalued, disorganised and running around like headless chicken to try to catch up on life, complaining that "life admin" is a full time job , people who live for their Friday evening.

These are the people who I suspect are so jealous. Plus people playing martyr about having to juggle WFH in the pandemic and homeschooling.
Not fun by all means, but the drama!

So SAH mums are clearly resented by some bitter people.

So one can logically assume that the SAHM making nasty and judgemental comment about working mums are jealous and bitter as well. Right?

It's as bad when it comes to women who worked. I've read really cutting replies on most issues.

as a working mum, I notice these a lot more. I disagree they are as bad, or I haven't seen them.

If you read MN, you'd think that EVERYONE has a mentally challenging and financially rewarding amazing career, and that EVERYONE has a strong support group and it's so easy to go to work with children.

It's all bollocks. Many people are miserable in crappy jobs, and childcare is only easy when the kids are at nursery. Opened for long hours, every single weekday of the year apart from Christmas. When school starts, it gets really hard (and expensive).

@Sweak it's funny how we each perceive the balance, you think there are more comments about Sahm, I feel like I see more negativity about wohm. I think we're more defensive about comments that reflect on our own life choices.

For what it's worth before arriving on Mumsnet I thought staying at home was normal and it made me a bit sad knowing it wasn't ever gonna to financially viable forme to give up work despite a lovely supportive dh. I felt it was the norm and always positive having been raised by sahm.

I now see that it in some cases it's actually potentially problematic and have seen so many heartbreaking threads where women are trapped in dreadful marriages because they have no income or independence.I appreciate what you're saying that people should be able to decide for themselves but you seem like you've had the opportunity of good higher education lots of people might not be able to appraise the situation in the same way you can and end up vulnerable and posting on Mumsnet ...

No one should be derogatory but some people are just arseholes

As a sahm for a while, im now 44, my youngest is now 15, i've home schooled for the last 5 years. I split from my childrens father when she was 3. I wasn't vunerable, i dusted myself off and i worked part time, till 2016 when i had an accident that forced me to give up, then discovered i had an underactive thyroid & a large hernia. So in 2019 i got married to a man i have known since junior school, we had been together 10 years, infact he was responsible for pulling me out of the funk i was in due to my ex who decimated my confidence in myself.
Ive now become self employed, selling my own baked goods, im doing ok, my husband works full time and is happy to provide for us, but he wanted me to try selling my goods, he believes in me.
Money just isnt everything, i guess what i am trying to say is that the main thing is happy healthy children, no matter which way you choose to do it, do what feels right for you.Things can happen, we cant plan for everything and living a life full of what ifs can't be good, we would never do anything otherwise.
Ive even had the confidence to attempt to learn to drive again.

Depends on your perspective I think. I notice far more "so why did you bother having children if don't want to devote yourselves to them 24/7" than anything else. And I do find the "I'm so lucky I don't need to work" comments irritating.

Money just isnt everything

I can catagorically assure you, that when you’re living in poverty, or your in a terrible relationship and have no money of your own to leave , money does become everything.

It’s lovely not to be in that situation and to be able to say money isn’t everything, and to have someone be happy to provide, but for many many people, the lack of money takes away all choice, and fear, resentment, misery fully takes it’s place.

If you browse the relationships board you will see a new thread every day by a woman, sometimes unhappy but usually being abused, who is trapped in a relationship largely due to being financially dependant on a man. It takes a great deal of courage to get out of that.

There is also a LOT of evidence that they pay gap starts when women have children.

Women are usually at a disadvantage as pensioners because they havent paid in as much.

Its GREAT that you got a job so quickly but its not something I see happening so often.

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT
People are disparaging to both sides but what I see a lot of is concern for people who have sleepwalked into being SAHM. Which is perfectly valid.

If your DH is a higher earner and a good husband and you’ve all worked it out fair enough. But if you’ve become a SAHM because it’s the ‘default’ because your salary doesn’t cover childcare (BOTH parents should pay for childcare) or your DH doesn’t think you’re contributing, or doesn’t respect you... then there’s a problem. Pointing this out isn’t nasty

I think SAHM and Step mum's get it worse on here!

Nah, single mums are the ultimate hate figure. Work and you're a heartless cow abandoning your baby in a day orphanage/letting strangers raise your children/putting haircuts and new cars before your children etc. You potentially even have the cheek to expect taxpayers to find childcare. You should stay at home. Don't work (and therefore need benefits) and you're a scrounger/setting a poor example/bringing your child up in poverty and should get a job. There might be a niche of acceptability for single mums who are independently wealthy and therefore don't need to either work or claim benefits but most people are unlikely to fall into this category.

@Pebbledashery

I think SAHM and Step mum's get it worse on here!

you are probably right... Step Mums take the hatred to a whole new level.

But I am pretty sure haters happen to be "the ex wife" and don't live it well at all!

There is also a LOT of evidence that they pay gap starts when women have children.

well, as it's the time when many women slow down or take time off, sounds pretty reasonable.

@notanothertakeaway

To be fair, it cuts both ways. Plenty of SAHM's on here criticise WOHM's for abandoning their children in the care of strangers aka a well regulated childcare facility

Then don’t home school so send their children off but apparently that’s different

but say that the housework and ‘admin’ of running a household takes up ALL their time and they have NO spare time to themselves. I work full time and do the housework and the admin

Or the working person should still do half the housework. Not to mention all the claims of a spouse can’t possibly work without them not.

@paloma10

Most longer-term SAHMs I know who don’t go back to work when the kids are in school have no intention of returning to their old careers. I think your perspective changes over these years maybe? Many retrain and eventually work for themselves; or they start up all sorts of businesses (or not). Property redevelopment is a big one and they do it in the side. Counsellors and therapists are careers that you can retrain for and still be in control of how many hours you work. If your husband has a diverse business / investment portfolio it’s common to become involved in that to some extent too. Many set up charities or they do all sorts of things to be honest - the list is endless. The point is, they were never planning or worried about whether they would struggle to get back into their olds roles and that’s not really the mindset.

You do realise that your friends who do 'property redevelopment' and manage their husband's diverse investment portfolios are incredibly unrepresentative, right?

That's not the majority of SAHMs.

Honestly, I think it's more than just a few posters being dicks...there's a new thread (usually with a disingenuous title) disparaging sahms nearly every week.

And if you are brave enough to say it was what you felt was best for your individual family and DC at the time you get accused of "pearl clutching".

There are some particular posters on here who are like dogs with a bone on this particular topic who will literally goad posters until they are driven off a thread.

They defend their position with such vehemence in some instances that I sometimes wonder if they are men.