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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Why is MN so horrible to SAHMs?

999 replies

Sweak · 11/05/2021 16:57

I'm sure this will go down like a lead balloon, but it's been bothering me.

Every post I see written by a sahm, no matter what her issue is, has at least 5 posters telling her she must get a job Or implying she's lazy and even worse 'contributes nothing.'

Lots of posts under the guise of telling women they need to protect themselves financially are criticising this choice (not always but many). I would never dream of criticising a mother for working so why is it acceptable to criticise those who decide to stay at home to be with their children? (I claim zero benefits fyi in case that's a suggestion). I accept that a very very long period out of work will leave you vulnerable if you split due pension, but 5 years or so? The pre school years...I don't think so. Obviously being a sahp is only going to work if you have a decent partner who shares income.

And finally so many posters implying that by being a sahm you are making it basically impossible to be employable ever again unless you run the PTA!

Full disclosure...I'm a sahm, and have been for four years, but I've decided to return to work. I've secured a job for sept (teacher), and got the second job I had an interview for so the suggestion sahm are making themselves unemployable for having a few years out doesn't ring true! However due to MN my confidence about getting a job was so low.

Can't we just support each others choices in life even if they differ to our own?

OP posts:
Templetreebreeze · 16/05/2021 19:23

Ive just searched for and found a report by Charted Insurers Institute regarding risks to women over their lives.

Needless to say the biggest risk is violence/ sexual violence followed by poverty due to women stepping out of the workplace to care for children/elderly.
I think quite a few people are kidding themselves quite frankly, it makes for grim reading.

Tittyfilarious · 16/05/2021 19:25

@FloconDeNeige

the truth is nobody's future is certain anything can happen

This is such a facile point to make. Not only because it’s self-evident but also because if we extend the logic of it, we might as well never bother with any rational decision-making about anything ever - because ‘anything can happen’.

What I'm trying to say is that wohm who talk about sahm being financially vulnerable and all the other negative comments they make assume that they are in the far better position and can come across as if they are better than a parent who chooses to stay at home because they work can suddenly find themselves in the same position they warn against so much and its out of their control
Sweak · 16/05/2021 19:27

@FloconDeNeige

but arnt those women as financially vulnerable as a sahm

No, they aren’t, and the fact that you think they are just shows why these things need raising and discussing.

Even a WOHM in a low-paid job will be contributing to their state pension and possibly also work-place pension. And the fact that they are already in employment means that if they need to re-locate, change industry etc., they are generally in a stronger position to find a job than a SAHM who has an employment gap.

Actually as long as you register for child benefit (you don't have to actually claim as you might not be able to receive it if husband a higher earner) you get credit contributions for up to 12 years. This is in place to protect sahp future state pension so they don't end up in a vulnerable situation in old age
OP posts:
Sweak · 16/05/2021 19:34

@Templetreebreeze

Ive just searched for and found a report by Charted Insurers Institute regarding risks to women over their lives.

Needless to say the biggest risk is violence/ sexual violence followed by poverty due to women stepping out of the workplace to care for children/elderly.
I think quite a few people are kidding themselves quite frankly, it makes for grim reading.

No one here is saying being a sahm will work for everyone. Unfortunately some women with children have no choice but to be a sahm due to childcare costs/lack of family support. So sadly of course what you've written here will be true
OP posts:
5zeds · 16/05/2021 19:57

Risk of what? The biggest risk to health? Life expectancy? Happiness?

Templetreebreeze · 16/05/2021 20:00

No one here is saying being a sahm will work for everyone. Unfortunately some women with children have no choice but to be a sahm due to childcare costs/lack of family support. So sadly of course what you've written here will be true

It was about risks to women as a whole during their lives.
The financial impacts were massive for women who had taken time out of the workplace at any time.
Not a little gap between men and women.
A massive gap.
The gap between divorced men and women is shocking.

5zeds · 16/05/2021 20:09

Not even mentioned with regard to health by the WHO

www.who.int/gho/women_and_health/diseases_risk_factors/leading_text/en/

FloconDeNeige · 16/05/2021 20:12

Why would the World HEALTH Organisation discuss risks to women that are unrelated to health?? It’s not in their remit.

Kottbullar · 16/05/2021 20:13

That report makes dismal reading for all women to be quite honest.

Templetreebreeze · 16/05/2021 20:14

[quote 5zeds]Not even mentioned with regard to health by the WHO

www.who.int/gho/women_and_health/diseases_risk_factors/leading_text/en/[/quote]
Violence and pregnancy are the biggest risks to womens health.
Women outlive men despite their economic status .
Im not sure what your point is ?

Templetreebreeze · 16/05/2021 20:15

@Kottbullar

That report makes dismal reading for all women to be quite honest.
Yes Sad
5zeds · 16/05/2021 20:19

I was trying to guess what “risk” was being discussed. It’s unusual to discuss risk without identifying the area of risk you’re considering. I don’t think it’s really surprising that if you stop earning there will be an impact on your finances. How could there not?

Templetreebreeze · 16/05/2021 20:19

Women who take time out of the workplace as carers and are divorced fare far worse though.
Its really shocked me tbh.
The loss of future earnings for women in this situation is massively impacted and there is no mitigation for that.

FloconDeNeige · 16/05/2021 20:20

That report makes dismal reading for all women to be quite honest.

Indeed it does, as the odds aren’t stacked in women’s favour from the moment our father’s sperm delivers our second X chromosome.

All the more reason to discuss the things that risk disadvantaging us even further.

Sweak · 16/05/2021 20:38

Women who take time out of the workplace as carers and are divorced fare far worse though.

To me it's sad, but logical and not particularly shocking. There's no denying there are risks to being a sahm. I like the many others on this thread was well aware of this, and took the 'risk' as such.
That's not to say my decision was unwise, as I've experienced some benefits to being at home with my children over the last 4 years.

OP posts:
Sweak · 16/05/2021 21:13

Whilst the issues raised here are extremely important, I feel like the discussion has moved more towards the pitfalls of being a sahm. (Noteably not the benefits though...although maybe that's because it's more obvious? Or could there be other reasons?)

That wasn't really my question. My opening post related to MN in particular. I, like many sahm on this thread, haven't experienced quite so much negativity in RL as on here.

OP posts:
Tittyfilarious · 16/05/2021 21:42

@Sweak I think I said this earlier op in real life nobody cares that I'm a sahm or questions my choice at all everyone just gets on with it some of my friends had been sahm for years and then went on to get a job because they decided they'd like to go to work now their children were older and I've also got friends who gave up their full time jobs because they wanted some years at home and everyone just gets on with it I genuinely have only seen all this talk of financial vulnerability and what if your husband buggers off on here. We planned how we wanted our family life to be before we even got married and me being sahm was what we both thought would work best for us and many years later it's what has and still works best for us. I do understand that some posters see it as a negative thing and then go on to talk about the negative aspects of being a sahm but I honestly wonder why they feel I don't know these things already it's almost like I can't possibly have come to this decision because in their eyes it's too risky but in mine it's absolutely worth the risk .

Sweak · 16/05/2021 21:49

@Tittyfilarious

I do understand that some posters see it as a negative thing and then go on to talk about the negative aspects of being a sahm but I honestly wonder why they feel I don't know these things already it's almost like I can't possibly have come to this decision because in their eyes it's too risky but in mine it's absolutely worth the risk .

That's exactly how I feel. I am well aware it's a risk, but isn't so much in life. I agree it's worth the risk (in my situation..not everyone's).

OP posts:
Kottbullar · 16/05/2021 22:49

[quote Sweak]@Tittyfilarious

I do understand that some posters see it as a negative thing and then go on to talk about the negative aspects of being a sahm but I honestly wonder why they feel I don't know these things already it's almost like I can't possibly have come to this decision because in their eyes it's too risky but in mine it's absolutely worth the risk .

That's exactly how I feel. I am well aware it's a risk, but isn't so much in life. I agree it's worth the risk (in my situation..not everyone's).[/quote]
I agree.
In my case the decision for me to be at home longer term lead to us making changes that mean I'm better protected now financially than I was when I was the lower earner and these things weren't in place.
As a couple we are both aware of the risk and my Husband wants me to feel as secure as possible.
We're just doing what works for us though. It's not for everyone and although I feel privileged I appreciate our set up wouldn't suit many couples.

paloma10 · 16/05/2021 23:20

“ I genuinely have only seen all this talk of financial vulnerability and what if your husband buggers off on here. “

Well exactly.

When we moved into this house pre-lockdown, I met a few neighbours after I temporarily lost the cat, so I invited people over for coffee. It was something like a Thursday morning and from ten houses up the road one way and the same on the other, pretty much they all came over. I assume they’re all SAH women as they’re all available in the day, but who knows? The point is, nobody asks and nobody cares!

There are women I’ve known for years at the school gates. Four kids in three different schools so it’s a a lot of people since reception. Again, I assume they’re SAH as they’re there, but they could be doing anything between 9 and 3 for all I know. But nobody cares. There are some mums who work and again, nobody cares or thinks a thing of it. It’s never crossed my mind as to who is financially more vulnerable than who.

I know two people who are divorced - that’s it. The one who is a SAHM is much better off than the one who worked / works. The one who was a SAHM... her husband who was a few years younger than her, ran off with an older woman. Obviously my friend was devastated and she was seriously ill for a while. But financially, she’s still in the house and he gave that to her and he still pays the school fees as they’re still his kids. The new woman ended up leaving him because he expected her to do his childcare on his weekends. Since then he’s had some form of breakdown. My friend has returned to work part/time and is fine with a new partner.

My other friend who was known for a quite niche thing on TV, has slowly ;over a decade or so) redeveloped from flats a townhouse in the Chelsea area which, if she was still in it today, would be worth probably 7 million. She is now in a rental flat and really struggling because her ex- banker husband got her to re-mortgage the house to prevent his various positions being stopped out on the City Index and they lost everything and more.

I don’t know why people can’t grasp that a single income is less significant to “financial security” than the overall financial set-up you are in. Ok, if you’re on a massive income, fair enough. But maybe your mortgage is huge because you’ve overstretched there? Maybe the family with the SAHM nextdoor has assets you don’t have? Maybe they have no mortgage, fewer kids, no school fees to cover, more savings? Maybe that couple with the SAHM receive income from other properties or investment schemes snd she knows ex’s tot where she stands financially (perhaps better than you) and she knows could survive pretty well, even if they split. This is precisely why she is a SAHM! She’s not a dimwit - quite the opppsite. Maybe she has a job that is relatively easy to pick up again? Maybe not because she wouldn’t need one?

Basically all families do what they can afford. Anything they can’t afford is a “risk.” If they can afford a SAHM, then that’s an option. It is not an option for most families because most in 2021 need two incomes. So you have to assume, that, for the small proportion of families where a woman (or msn) is a SAH, these couples have decided that this is feasible for a year, two years, indefinitely, or whatever the case may be. If they can’t afford it, they wouldn’t be doing it (or certainly they wouldn’t be doing it for long). So please credit people with the intelligence to have have done their own cost / benefit analysis. Exactly the same as the cost / benefit analysis you did when deciding what job to take and is the pay worth the hours. You came up with your solution and they came up with theirs. Same process, just different outcomes.

Yes there will be fine women who can’t afford to go to to work because the cost of childcare is too high. Again, their decision. If they are low income, the job was not likely to be a high powered career-type job and so they figure they will take a couple of years out and then just get some form of job later. They do their cost / benefit analysis and decide the benefits outweigh the costs.

If you have a disabled child you may not give a hoot about financial security down the lines because you have more pressing worries which take precedence.

Some women may be in financially abusive relationships but this applies to women who work as well. If you are a SAHM in a financially abusive relationship, getting a job will not end the abuse because he will likely take your money and misuse it anyway. Some low paid job might marginally help you to leave, but you still have to pay for childcare in that event and also it’s unlikely to cover rent. That type of DH will make sure you’re screwed over regardless.

Backofbeyond50 · 17/05/2021 01:14

I just don't understand why a strangers working status should bother people so much? I was a SAH for a good few years and now I work.

Ginuwine · 17/05/2021 04:54

The reality of AIBU is that some people on here are insecure. Very insecure. They want to justify their choices (long working hours, big career, large mortgage, desirable London postcode).

And in their particular financial situation they can only achieve all that through a dual income household. It involves necessary sacrifice to achieve what they have set out to.

Therefore SAHMs, especially those who are able to stay at home because DH or DP is a very big earner, are there to be attacked because they are evidence it can be done another way.

I think they are attacked partially or wholly due to jealousy.

picknmix1984 · 17/05/2021 05:32

Perhaps because there an awful lot of SAHMs that come on here mewing that they are in a precarious financial position and asking what they should do about it.

Aria999 · 17/05/2021 05:38

I am a sahm (5 years and counting) and mn has me firmly convinced I am totally unemployable....

But I am going to try anyway when covid eases up

Aria999 · 17/05/2021 05:42

@paloma10

“ I genuinely have only seen all this talk of financial vulnerability and what if your husband buggers off on here. “

Well exactly.

When we moved into this house pre-lockdown, I met a few neighbours after I temporarily lost the cat, so I invited people over for coffee. It was something like a Thursday morning and from ten houses up the road one way and the same on the other, pretty much they all came over. I assume they’re all SAH women as they’re all available in the day, but who knows? The point is, nobody asks and nobody cares!

There are women I’ve known for years at the school gates. Four kids in three different schools so it’s a a lot of people since reception. Again, I assume they’re SAH as they’re there, but they could be doing anything between 9 and 3 for all I know. But nobody cares. There are some mums who work and again, nobody cares or thinks a thing of it. It’s never crossed my mind as to who is financially more vulnerable than who.

I know two people who are divorced - that’s it. The one who is a SAHM is much better off than the one who worked / works. The one who was a SAHM... her husband who was a few years younger than her, ran off with an older woman. Obviously my friend was devastated and she was seriously ill for a while. But financially, she’s still in the house and he gave that to her and he still pays the school fees as they’re still his kids. The new woman ended up leaving him because he expected her to do his childcare on his weekends. Since then he’s had some form of breakdown. My friend has returned to work part/time and is fine with a new partner.

My other friend who was known for a quite niche thing on TV, has slowly ;over a decade or so) redeveloped from flats a townhouse in the Chelsea area which, if she was still in it today, would be worth probably 7 million. She is now in a rental flat and really struggling because her ex- banker husband got her to re-mortgage the house to prevent his various positions being stopped out on the City Index and they lost everything and more.

I don’t know why people can’t grasp that a single income is less significant to “financial security” than the overall financial set-up you are in. Ok, if you’re on a massive income, fair enough. But maybe your mortgage is huge because you’ve overstretched there? Maybe the family with the SAHM nextdoor has assets you don’t have? Maybe they have no mortgage, fewer kids, no school fees to cover, more savings? Maybe that couple with the SAHM receive income from other properties or investment schemes snd she knows ex’s tot where she stands financially (perhaps better than you) and she knows could survive pretty well, even if they split. This is precisely why she is a SAHM! She’s not a dimwit - quite the opppsite. Maybe she has a job that is relatively easy to pick up again? Maybe not because she wouldn’t need one?

Basically all families do what they can afford. Anything they can’t afford is a “risk.” If they can afford a SAHM, then that’s an option. It is not an option for most families because most in 2021 need two incomes. So you have to assume, that, for the small proportion of families where a woman (or msn) is a SAH, these couples have decided that this is feasible for a year, two years, indefinitely, or whatever the case may be. If they can’t afford it, they wouldn’t be doing it (or certainly they wouldn’t be doing it for long). So please credit people with the intelligence to have have done their own cost / benefit analysis. Exactly the same as the cost / benefit analysis you did when deciding what job to take and is the pay worth the hours. You came up with your solution and they came up with theirs. Same process, just different outcomes.

Yes there will be fine women who can’t afford to go to to work because the cost of childcare is too high. Again, their decision. If they are low income, the job was not likely to be a high powered career-type job and so they figure they will take a couple of years out and then just get some form of job later. They do their cost / benefit analysis and decide the benefits outweigh the costs.

If you have a disabled child you may not give a hoot about financial security down the lines because you have more pressing worries which take precedence.

Some women may be in financially abusive relationships but this applies to women who work as well. If you are a SAHM in a financially abusive relationship, getting a job will not end the abuse because he will likely take your money and misuse it anyway. Some low paid job might marginally help you to leave, but you still have to pay for childcare in that event and also it’s unlikely to cover rent. That type of DH will make sure you’re screwed over regardless.

👏

(I would say 'this' but apparently on another thread at the moment it's cringeworthy to do so)