Why is MN so horrible to SAHMs?

[Sweak]

I'm sure this will go down like a lead balloon, but it's been bothering me.

Every post I see written by a sahm, no matter what her issue is, has at least 5 posters telling her she must get a job Or implying she's lazy and even worse 'contributes nothing.'

Lots of posts under the guise of telling women they need to protect themselves financially are criticising this choice (not always but many). I would never dream of criticising a mother for working so why is it acceptable to criticise those who decide to stay at home to be with their children? (I claim zero benefits fyi in case that's a suggestion). I accept that a very very long period out of work will leave you vulnerable if you split due pension, but 5 years or so? The pre school years...I don't think so. Obviously being a sahp is only going to work if you have a decent partner who shares income.

And finally so many posters implying that by being a sahm you are making it basically impossible to be employable ever again unless you run the PTA!

Full disclosure...I'm a sahm, and have been for four years, but I've decided to return to work. I've secured a job for sept (teacher), and got the second job I had an interview for so the suggestion sahm are making themselves unemployable for having a few years out doesn't ring true! However due to MN my confidence about getting a job was so low.

Can't we just support each others choices in life even if they differ to our own?

Is your DH Ben Fogle @paloma10

@Sweak

Definitely wasn’t career suicide. I had lots of energy returning to work after ten years, and I was absolutely raring to go! I was a woman on a mission.
This was in contrast to some of my friends who had worked very hard throughout their baby rearing years and had stalled in their careers, because quite frankly they were bloody knackered.

I do think the vast majority of SAHMs have looked at the wider financial picture as it pertains to them (because that’s all that actually matters) and are probably no more financially vulnerable than the next woman (on average).

I’d disagree with that. Your rich friend SAHM probably aren’t, but I’d bet more SAHMs are financially vulnerable that the next women who isn’t. I’d even say the majority are, with the degree of vulnerability increasing as years at home increase.

All of the SAHMs I know personally are more financially vulnerable than when they were working (they all worked FT prior to kids). And the sheer number of SAHMs on here looking for advice when in financial difficulty dwarfs the numbers of WOHMs on here in the same predicament. All anecdotal, but I bet this would be confirmed by research if it was conducted.

If you look hard enough for offence you will usually find it oh good Lord, are we going to have “you’re too sensitive” now? Honestly it’s like the 70s in here. L

@5zeds

If you look hard enough for offence you will usually find it oh good Lord, are we going to have “you’re too sensitive” now? Honestly it’s like the 70s in here. L

But you are reaching for some offense though, she isn't wrong

@5zeds

If you look hard enough for offence you will usually find it oh good Lord, are we going to have “you’re too sensitive” now? Honestly it’s like the 70s in here. L

Well it is looking for offense when it was nothing to do with or aimed at anyone else

No I dont do that minimisation shit so dont try to pin that on me .

@FloconDeNeige
All of the SAHMs I know personally are more financially vulnerable than when they were working (they all worked FT prior to kids).

There's a difference between making yourself more vulnerable and being completely vulnerable. By definition of giving up your job you do have some vulnerability. Just as you would earning minimal amounts on a poor wage or even part time as it may not be enough to support yourself independently of your husband. The issue becomes where the woman has no financial rights at all in the event of a spilt

I’d even say the majority are, with the degree of vulnerability increasing as years at home increase.

This would depend a lot on home ownership/assets surely? Although in regards to pension a long length of time I can see your point

And the sheer number of SAHMs on here looking for advice when in financial difficulty dwarfs the numbers of WOHMs on here in the same predicament.

Big issues like sample bias though. There would need to be proper studies I think to be confident in your assertions

I’m not particularly offended or surprised by any of the same old same old being trotted out. Personally I don’t think SAHP need financial difficulties highlighted more than anyone else and I do see the dressing this stuff up as “trying to help” as nonsense. People should absolutely be free to choose how their families function and I personally think the “help” as described is incredibly patronising and for the (very few) SAHP I know a bit silly.

The whole WOHM vs.- SAHM is like BF vs. FF: a tedious treadmill to nowhere. Unless it's more nuanced and deals with specific circumstances, what the general debate tends to boil down to is two groups of people, having made different choices on parenting lifestyles, viewing the opposite decision as a personal affront. here is very rarely anything new or original to add.

It's a matter of less than indifference to me how other families divide their households' paid and domestic labour (nor do you often see men caring about this stuff). It's your business. And if no one sought strangers' validation of their personal decisions, it would remain precisely that. I'm not about to justify my lifestyle to online strangers who know nothing of me and care less, nor it is not up to me to approve of their decisions or otherwise.

The stuff about 'women should support each other's choices' that baffles me. Why? That's not my place just because I also happen to be female. We are all mothers, doing the best in our particular circumstances, for our families and ourselves.

I'm really not computing the angst.

@5zeds

I’m not particularly offended or surprised by any of the same old same old being trotted out. Personally I don’t think SAHP need financial difficulties highlighted more than anyone else and I do see the dressing this stuff up as “trying to help” as nonsense. People should absolutely be free to choose how their families function and I personally think the “help” as described is incredibly patronising and for the (very few) SAHP I know a bit silly.

Most of the advice is on threads in Relationships where its been asked for and is hugely valuable and supportive. Some of the threads are so supportive to women in need

Here its usually comments taken personally when it isnt intended.

@Sweak I may get flamed for this but again and again on this thread it's talk of financial vulnerability of sahm yet I've read many a thread from working mothers paying half the bills and arnt left with much money for anything even though their partner earns much more and they have no access to his money . These posters seem to generally get lots of support but arnt those women as financially vulnerable as a sahm yet nobody says that, they say she's being financially abused yet say you are a sahm and you don't have much money and you have no access to his money and the replies arnt particularly nice

But we’re not talking about threads where financially vulnerable people ask for advice. The thread is about

WHY MN IS SO HORRIBLE TO STAY AT HOME MUMS?

They’re not they’re giving advice when asked for....ISN’T that situation.

SAHMs are looking for offence...is just minimising.

They’re rude to WOHMs....this is possible though I’m not convinced.

[quote Tittyfilarious]@Sweak I may get flamed for this but again and again on this thread it's talk of financial vulnerability of sahm yet I've read many a thread from working mothers paying half the bills and arnt left with much money for anything even though their partner earns much more and they have no access to his money . These posters seem to generally get lots of support but arnt those women as financially vulnerable as a sahm yet nobody says that, they say she's being financially abused yet say you are a sahm and you don't have much money and you have no access to his money and the replies arnt particularly nice[/quote]
I agree. It seems the relies to the sahm berate them for choices already made. Really both scenarios you outline boil down to a shitty partner.

@5zeds

I’m not particularly offended or surprised by any of the same old same old being trotted out. Personally I don’t think SAHP need financial difficulties highlighted more than anyone else and I do see the dressing this stuff up as “trying to help” as nonsense. People should absolutely be free to choose how their families function and I personally think the “help” as described is incredibly patronising and for the (very few) SAHP I know a bit silly.

I agree with you.

@5zeds

But we’re not talking about threads where financially vulnerable people ask for advice. The thread is about

WHY MN IS SO HORRIBLE TO STAY AT HOME MUMS?

They’re not they’re giving advice when asked for....ISN’T that situation.

SAHMs are looking for offence...is just minimising.

They’re rude to WOHMs....this is possible though I’m not convinced.

Actually it was you were looking for offence not all SAHMs. See how it gets whipped up

@5zeds

But we’re not talking about threads where financially vulnerable people ask for advice. The thread is about

WHY MN IS SO HORRIBLE TO STAY AT HOME MUMS?

They’re not they’re giving advice when asked for....ISN’T that situation.

SAHMs are looking for offence...is just minimising.

They’re rude to WOHMs....this is possible though I’m not convinced.

Yeah... but you were replying to my answers saying I was being rude about SAHP when I was explicitly talking about the ones who ask for help and well, they get what they ask for - like anyone does on this thread.

No one has a right to say how you should live your life.

When people see certain experiences which turn out badly, it's normal for them to share their concerns. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing.

I have been asked multiple times by people if I feel guilty working full time and if my child 'misses me', whatever that means. It works both ways, because we are choosing to parent the way we want which isn't going to be everyone's cup of cha.

@Templetreebreeze exactly, they've been jumping HARD to some of their conclusions!

[quote LordOfTheOnionRings]@Templetreebreeze exactly, they've been jumping HARD to some of their conclusions![/quote]
You could equally say that about some of the wohm on his thread earlier. No one on here is saying overtly offensive things. Many comments are just enough (on either side of the debate) to push a few buttons without actually saying anything directly offensive

So why DO you think SAHMs get a hard time on MN?

but arnt those women as financially vulnerable as a sahm

No, they aren’t, and the fact that you think they are just shows why these things need raising and discussing.

Even a WOHM in a low-paid job will be contributing to their state pension and possibly also work-place pension. And the fact that they are already in employment means that if they need to re-locate, change industry etc., they are generally in a stronger position to find a job than a SAHM who has an employment gap.

Do you worry about WOHM who might suddenly need to become SAHMs?

@5zeds

Do you worry about WOHM who might suddenly need to become SAHMs?

You could use this reaching to ask yourself a lot of other 'what if' questions, but that's not what we are talking about.

If a woman wanted to work and fond herself out of work, she would probably look for another job, which someone who has chosen to be a SAHP wouldn't do presumably? If I was working and was made redundant, would I want people to be worried about my financial position? YES - because I would be worried about it myself!

I don't really see mumsnet getting it rough, I see two sides of a coin giving the other side advice they don't want - but that's the nature of an internet forum.

These threads go around and around over the same issues but the truth is nobody's future is certain anything can happen you can be a sahm and it go tits up you can be a wohm and financially secure and it all crash down due to things out of your control.

Why is it “reaching” to ask if you have the same concerns about a WOHM suddenly having to give up work and the financial benefits and self esteem she gains from her chosen lifestyle?

the truth is nobody's future is certain anything can happen

This is such a facile point to make. Not only because it’s self-evident but also because if we extend the logic of it, we might as well never bother with any rational decision-making about anything ever - because ‘anything can happen’.