Why is MN so horrible to SAHMs?

[Sweak]

I'm sure this will go down like a lead balloon, but it's been bothering me.

Every post I see written by a sahm, no matter what her issue is, has at least 5 posters telling her she must get a job Or implying she's lazy and even worse 'contributes nothing.'

Lots of posts under the guise of telling women they need to protect themselves financially are criticising this choice (not always but many). I would never dream of criticising a mother for working so why is it acceptable to criticise those who decide to stay at home to be with their children? (I claim zero benefits fyi in case that's a suggestion). I accept that a very very long period out of work will leave you vulnerable if you split due pension, but 5 years or so? The pre school years...I don't think so. Obviously being a sahp is only going to work if you have a decent partner who shares income.

And finally so many posters implying that by being a sahm you are making it basically impossible to be employable ever again unless you run the PTA!

Full disclosure...I'm a sahm, and have been for four years, but I've decided to return to work. I've secured a job for sept (teacher), and got the second job I had an interview for so the suggestion sahm are making themselves unemployable for having a few years out doesn't ring true! However due to MN my confidence about getting a job was so low.

Can't we just support each others choices in life even if they differ to our own?

Christ on a bike - are we all six years old or something? Of course nobody thinks “two wage families” mean inferior mothers. There’s millions of such families - any particular ones? As if. What are people even on about? All this, just because the OP said she’s been home for a few years - shock horror . Hardly the crime of the century is it? Hardly even remotely unusual. And now she’s going back into teaching and it wasn’t as hard as she thought. She hasn’t made one disparaging comment about any women who work in any shape or form.

Wow. Sweeping statements without evidence, ad hominem attacks, passive aggression and an implicit veneer of moral superiority. Excellent use of lots of words. OP wonders why one group is put down my another. I really don’t think she was looking for evidence, more people’s opinions based on their experience. It isn’t morally superior to point out people who go against the norm have usually thought about it. I honestly DON’T find SAHP at all negative about working parents unless they’re being asked to endlessly fill in their childcare gaps (which is common). Otherwise they pretty much just don’t care.

@paloma10

Christ on a bike - are we all six years old or something? Of course nobody thinks “two wage families” mean inferior mothers. There’s millions of such families - any particular ones? As if. What are people even on about? All this, just because the OP said she’s been home for a few years - shock horror . Hardly the crime of the century is it? Hardly even remotely unusual. And now she’s going back into teaching and it wasn’t as hard as she thought. She hasn’t made one disparaging comment about any women who work in any shape or form.

But @paloma10 that's exactly what this poster was saying.

I quote: "Honestly I think people are rude to those who choose to live on one wage because they want to feel good about their choices and do have regrets/doubts."

If that's not an attack on WOHMs I'd like to see what is.

There is plenty of bile on both sides but when a thread is set up with the title "Why is MN horrible to SAHMs", and someone pops up to say: "you are all having a go because you feel guilty that you can't live on one wage", what are we supposed to think?

If posters like this tell you you are failing your children because you have to work and in my case I am living on one wage anyway you are going to kick back.

If that's not an attack on WOHMs I'd like to see what is. so why DO you think they’re so negative about sahp?

@5zeds

Wow. Sweeping statements without evidence, ad hominem attacks, passive aggression and an implicit veneer of moral superiority. Excellent use of lots of words. OP wonders why one group is put down my another. I really don’t think she was looking for evidence, more people’s opinions based on their experience. It isn’t morally superior to point out people who go against the norm have usually thought about it. I honestly DON’T find SAHP at all negative about working parents unless they’re being asked to endlessly fill in their childcare gaps (which is common). Otherwise they pretty much just don’t care.

Apart for yourself of course? You've just said that people who work feel they have to justify the fact that they can't live on one wage.

I work FT and I do live on one wage. Because there isn't anyone else I can rely on to support me. And that's why comments like this which have no basis in fact piss me right off.

If you're going to make snide and ill-founded remarks about the superiority of living on one wage at least have the grace to own it.

thepeopleversuswork - that was one post in the entire thread and wasn’t made by the OP.

So much is said on these threads and we all know it’s bollocks and goes round in circles. I don’t care what you do or don’t do for work - it had nothing to do with the type of parent you are and who am I to judge. Why do people assume to comment on others’ lives? My husband and I do things a certain way and that’s all I’m able to comment on because what other people do is irrelevant to my life. 99.9% of people would feel the same I think. It’s as if people are looking for an argument that’s not there sometimes. Of course we all have our reasons for doing what we do and we are doing what we think is best - otherwise why would you be doing it? But that is no comment about anyone else because unless you’ve walked in their shoes you can’t say anything.

@paloma10

thepeopleversuswork - that was one post in the entire thread and wasn’t made by the OP.

So much is said on these threads and we all know it’s bollocks and goes round in circles. I don’t care what you do or don’t do for work - it had nothing to do with the type of parent you are and who am I to judge. Why do people assume to comment on others’ lives? My husband and I do things a certain way and that’s all I’m able to comment on because what other people do is irrelevant to my life. 99.9% of people would feel the same I think. It’s as if people are looking for an argument that’s not there sometimes. Of course we all have our reasons for doing what we do and we are doing what we think is best - otherwise why would you be doing it? But that is no comment about anyone else because unless you’ve walked in their shoes you can’t say anything.

I wasn't having a go at the OP. I've had a fairly civilised back and forth with the OP. I was having a go at the specific person who made snide, nasty, ill-informed and sweeping generalisations saying people feel guilty if they can't live on one income. And I stand by that.

@paloma10

thepeopleversuswork - that was one post in the entire thread and wasn’t made by the OP.

So much is said on these threads and we all know it’s bollocks and goes round in circles. I don’t care what you do or don’t do for work - it had nothing to do with the type of parent you are and who am I to judge. Why do people assume to comment on others’ lives? My husband and I do things a certain way and that’s all I’m able to comment on because what other people do is irrelevant to my life. 99.9% of people would feel the same I think. It’s as if people are looking for an argument that’s not there sometimes. Of course we all have our reasons for doing what we do and we are doing what we think is best - otherwise why would you be doing it? But that is no comment about anyone else because unless you’ve walked in their shoes you can’t say anything.

I agree with this and in real life nobody seems to care what others do I only see the battle on here

If people don’t want comments on their lives there’s a very simple solution - don’t post about it on a public forum!
The value of whatever position anybody chooses to take is only relevant to their family. If you are posting on a public forum you’re asking for everyone else’s value judgement which may or may not suit your situation.
I for example see no value in having a SAHP once child is of school going age, neither does DP. If DP suddenly decided he wanted to become a SAHP he would get no support from me. If someone posted on a forum asking for my opinion on SAHM this is what I’d say.
Maybe someone else thinks something different.
But if you’re asking a deliberate which is better than the other you’re clearly going to get inflammatory comments because people will be arguing the pros and cons. The cons are not insults. They are people’s opinions.

A FEW people may make rude comments - but on both sides - not the entire mumsnet...

*Sweak

Fixitup2
I admit to making smug comments occasionally as a wohm. I’ve been told I’m not as maternal as SAHM’s or I’d be one, I’m letting other people raise my children and they’ll get more attached to their childminder. So I’m defensive about it. Ironically I have a much better, more loving relationship with my children than the family member who told me I wasn’t as maternal as them. Basically as Mums we’re all damned so you’ve just got to do what’s right for you. I’m confident I made the right decision to return to work as I have 2 lovely children who I have amazing relationships with, they’re very loving in a not needy way, have everything they need, get lots of opportunities and yet we still have lots of family time all weekend every weekend and we spend every evening as a family.
Whoever said that to you was cruel and wrong. Making smug comments on MN (I assume it's on here..correct me if I'm wrong) kind of makes you just as bad though

Live and let live! You are right we are damned either way*

The smug comments are only ever in a defensive response way. Such as my brother said “wife could never work whilst the children are so young as she doesn’t want other people to raise her children and shes just too maternal”. Me:”Well I think it’s important that the children see 2 working parents and I think that makes me a good role model to my children”.

On here I don’t know anyone’s situation so wouldn’t comment unless it’s someone directly criticising working mums.

@motherloaded

Quite honestly I have never bought a single item of clothing for my DH. If he wants or needs trousers/ pants/ socks he would go and buy them himself. I would find it utterly bizarre if he bought me clothes as well.

I find that bizarre.

DH is perfectly able to buy a pack of socks or tshirts for me or the kids!
He can hold a job, he can buy basics in the shops.

Im sure he is capable I prefer to buy my own clothes.

@Fixitup2 I do agree with you there. Both have their pros and cons. As long as both parents are on the same page and have a system that works for them it's really only their business and I do think in general people do just get on with what works for them as a family

@motherloaded

I dont do his laundry either grin

Thread implodes

Do you have separate washing machines? We would need 2 if we did separate laundry! Or it would be constant arguments about the machine being used when I need it

Plus one of the massive positive of living together is to share the chores!

Nope just the one. Both wear scrubs that stay at work though so no work clothes to launder. I have nice clothes,DH will buy something and still be wearing it 20 years later. My adult DS does his own laundry also. It works fine, we are adults so no issues at all.

@FloconDeNeige

Honestly I think people are rude to those who choose to live on one wage because they want to feel good about their choices and do have regrets/doubts.

And exactly the same could be said of people who are rude to those who live on two wages too.

Why else would anyone who was secure and happy in their choice to SAH, tell or otherwise infer that WOHM are inferior mothers, other than just being a nasty piece of work?

Really this exchange is saying those who are insecure of either choice (working or SAH) try to make those of the opposing choice feel inferior by being nasty.

I feel this helps answer my title..why is MN horrible to SAHMs.

Someone upthread said the title should be why are women horrible to each other (on MN). Maybe they are right

@Sweak you asked why there was the negativity and I explained what I have seen. It wasn't necessarily my viewpoint 🤷‍♀️ The debate is often polarised and these are the stereotypical views?

[quote MesAmaretto]@Sweak you asked why there was the negativity and I explained what I have seen. It wasn't necessarily my viewpoint 🤷‍♀️ The debate is often polarised and these are the stereotypical views?

[/quote]
I take your point. However if I was describing a polarising view, that I actually didn't agree with, I would make that very very clear.

@lovepickledlimes the benefits to the family were not involved in my decision making, though I know they usually are for people planning to stay at home for a longer period. I was incredibly selfish and had had enough of my work for various reasons and decided to have a break for a set period.

I don't think the kids noticed a difference as I'd always had a flexible employer so was there for nursery and school pick ups and drop offs anyway. Tbh it's only in lockdown that they've noticed that I work!

@MesAmaretto but surely it freed up more leisure time as a family as you could do some of the household things during the hours you originally worked or had more time to set up and plan activities

I remember all the SAHM bashing when I was one. I spent my free time - yes, it exists, you don't have to sit around watching In The Night Garden, funnily enough - I learned to code, went on a course and was hired as a web developer, where no one gave a stuff about my employment gap or apparent 'unhirability'. I now sit smugly thinking I probably earn more than all those snooty mums who considered SAHMs beneath them.

@Pennethorne

Being smug is never a good luck. And on this thread I’ve not seen any ‘snooty Mums who consider SAHMs beneath them’.

And, as has been pointed out by both SAH & WOH mothers, how much you earn isn’t an indicator of your value. God knows there are plenty of swinging dick wankers out there who’ve been promoted far above their capability level, mostly on account of having a Y chromosome, who are in receipt of enormous salaries.

@Pennethorne

I remember all the SAHM bashing when I was one. I spent my free time - yes, it exists, you don't have to sit around watching In The Night Garden, funnily enough - I learned to code, went on a course and was hired as a web developer, where no one gave a stuff about my employment gap or apparent 'unhirability'. I now sit smugly thinking I probably earn more than all those snooty mums who considered SAHMs beneath them.

🤣ooooh a web developer, I bet you earn a fortune after that "course". We are all in envy, especially the software engineers. You sure showed us!

[quote FloconDeNeige]@Pennethorne

Being smug is never a good luck. And on this thread I’ve not seen any ‘snooty Mums who consider SAHMs beneath them’.

And, as has been pointed out by both SAH & WOH mothers, how much you earn isn’t an indicator of your value. God knows there are plenty of swinging dick wankers out there who’ve been promoted far above their capability level, mostly on account of having a Y chromosome, who are in receipt of enormous salaries.[/quote]
There was the poster who would be horrified her at her daughter being a sahm. Seemed fairly 'snooty' to me.

I totally agree with your salary comment not being an indicator of your value though

But also great to see the gap didn't harm employment prospects (I recognise the retraining element btw).

@choli your sarcasm is uncalled for and adds nothing to the debate

[quote Sweak]@choli your sarcasm is uncalled for and adds nothing to the debate[/quote]
It added as much as the obnoxious bullshit comment that prompted it.

I work FT and I do live on one wage. Because there isn't anyone else I can rely on to support me. And that's why comments like this which have no basis in fact piss me right off.
So you HAVEN’T chosen to live on one wage and aren’t a SAHM. What exactly is the problem with families that DO choose to live on one income? Because that appears to be the issue people keep revisiting. It might be dressed up as concern for the financial dependence of one partner on the other but I don’t really think that’s what’s bugging people.

If you're going to make snide and ill-founded remarks about the superiority of living on one wage at least have the grace to own it. I wasn’t saying it was “superior”. Do you think it is? Is the issue that you feel it’s inferior to whatever set up you favour?