Why is MN so horrible to SAHMs?

[Sweak]

I'm sure this will go down like a lead balloon, but it's been bothering me.

Every post I see written by a sahm, no matter what her issue is, has at least 5 posters telling her she must get a job Or implying she's lazy and even worse 'contributes nothing.'

Lots of posts under the guise of telling women they need to protect themselves financially are criticising this choice (not always but many). I would never dream of criticising a mother for working so why is it acceptable to criticise those who decide to stay at home to be with their children? (I claim zero benefits fyi in case that's a suggestion). I accept that a very very long period out of work will leave you vulnerable if you split due pension, but 5 years or so? The pre school years...I don't think so. Obviously being a sahp is only going to work if you have a decent partner who shares income.

And finally so many posters implying that by being a sahm you are making it basically impossible to be employable ever again unless you run the PTA!

Full disclosure...I'm a sahm, and have been for four years, but I've decided to return to work. I've secured a job for sept (teacher), and got the second job I had an interview for so the suggestion sahm are making themselves unemployable for having a few years out doesn't ring true! However due to MN my confidence about getting a job was so low.

Can't we just support each others choices in life even if they differ to our own?

That’s why people say that being a SAHP is a dynamic decision. Should be reevaluated when there’s a change in circumstances and with the agreement of both parties with as much forward planning as possible. It should not just be a simple ‘nursery costs too much, someone stay home’ and then continues on for 10 years because it’s the default.

This advice usually comes from SAHP.

to disregard the hours when someone is at home and pretend it is worthless time is unhelpful and wrong and it's what can come across as really disparaging to SAHMs

But if the kids are at school, then they’re at school 🤷🏼‍♀️. Whether a parent is at work or at home, they’re not with their children for most of the day when the kids are in full-time education.

Sure, there's negatives of working, as well as negatives of being in school, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. and yet most of us HAVEN’T been in school/work much in the last 14 months.

If the answer is no, then your scorn is probably coming from a place of jealousy, rather than concern!!

And we’re back to the jealousy argument again. Didn’t take long! Is it really so hard to grasp that there are a sizeable number of women out there who don’t ‘need’ to work, but choose to?

I’m one of them. Either myself or my DH could stop working tomorrow. Our lifestyle wouldn’t fundamentally change, other than we’d save less each month. I choose to work for a variety of reasons, one being that I actually love what I do. I spent many years at university (7 in fact) to get to where I am and I’m not about to give it up just because we could comfortably live off my DH’s salary.

This was the feeling of a number of male colleagues. They found the pressure of being sole owner very stressful. When this was added to their feeling that their wife was spending money on luxuries depleting the account rather than saving for tomorrow, it made their feelings stronger. When they brought up the matter that now the kids were at school and maybe they could consider a PT job and they either said no or that they’d look but it became obvious they had no intention to accept anything, r sentiment took over.

I would love to hear the other side of these stories.

I am wondering if all the people who are going to be working at home going forward are going to see themselves as SAHP?

I choose to work for a variety of reasons, one being that I actually love what I do perhaps SAHP love what they do? If they trained first and were paid would it sit more comfortably?

@floconDeNeige did you read my whole post? I was talking about the time after school. When I work till 5 (usually in London before Covid) I return home by 6, that is three hours that my 5 year old spends in after-school club. We can't afford a nanny.
Are you telling me that those hours of the day are worthless?
In that time with him we do homework, chat about the day, read, make dinner, play. He is more chilled out and happy, he can relax and watch TV, have a friend over if he wants to, go to the park.
On the 3 days I work he is exhausted. Then there are after school activities. As a child I played a sport to international level as a teen, it wouldn't have been possible without a stay at home parent ferrying me around to all the training sessions. Multiply that by 2 or 3 for larger families and it's very hard to do with 2 parents working.
I'm not about to give up work as we need the money and I like working but I can still see the huge advantages to lifestyle with one parent being at home and understand why many parents make that choice. People that pour scorn on it just sound jealous in my opinion.

@5zeds

I am wondering if all the people who are going to be working at home going forward are going to see themselves as SAHP?

Of course not. You can split semantic hairs like a very literal-minded barber, but we all know the "stay at home" means "not in paid employment".

Do any of you think men tear each other down and debate their life choices? I doubt it. You honestly cannot win as a woman and it is ridiculous. I gave up a professional career to stay at home during the day with my dc but I also took on an evening job in my local supermarket for all the reasons listed here. Still wrong. I've had sneery, snooty remarks about my 'wee job'

I’m one of them. Either myself or my DH could stop working tomorrow. Our lifestyle wouldn’t fundamentally change, other than we’d save less each month. I choose to work for a variety of reasons, one being that I actually love what I do. I spent many years at university (7 in fact) to get to where I am and I’m not about to give it up just because we could comfortably live off my DH’s salary.
I'd say your situation is several deviations from the norm so can be safely ignored.

@LoisWilkersonslastnerve they do but not in the catty way women seem to do...
Honestly tho the OP is ‘why is MN so horrible to SAHM’
The answer IMO because the SAHM is usually posting problems. Yes some people are rude but equally true on all topics (especially AIBU).
OP seems insecure for some reason
What non-MN people say and do is a different story but it seems to depend on background. My family places a very high value of academic achievement and jobs and would be horrified at me packing it in, DP’s family not so, and random people different depending on background.

I earn substantially more than DH so had to return FT. I’ve had a lot of upsetting things said to me about it over the years about never getting this time back and never seeing my children (which I bloody do!) I ignore them but I have been brought to tears on several occasions.

This wasn’t what I planned, I presumed I’d be PT when I had kids, Iike everyone else seemed to be. I am jealous of SAHP although I would never be mean to them about their choices to make myself feel better though.

Coming out the other side I am pleased I have my career though, I would never have gotten where I am now if I hadn’t carried on working FT. A lot of my friends are looking for work now that the kids are all in school but they are struggling to get anything, I am not sure that couples take that into consideration enough when deciding to have one person SAHP or very PT. It’s often a short term lifestyle decision (to save money on childcare) that becomes a way of life. Which is fine if one person is happy and able to bear the financial burden forever but that’s not always the case.

Also my DH doesn’t want to work PT and no one has ever said a thing to him about missing out on these precious years. He doesn’t feel bad about it one bit.

Women are so nasty to one another, you’re damned no matter what you do.

Congratulations on your new job. Seriously though you’re in a minority - me and many other colleagues have been out the teaching workforce for a few years and can’t get a look in.
I am getting HLTA interviews if I am lucky. My earning potential has reduced by 60% and I’m just bloody gutted really.

@Santastealer

I’m not a SAHM mum full time as I work 2 days a week but I absolutely would be if we could afford to lose my wage completely.

I don’t like working, I like being at home. Does that make me lazy- maybe? I have a masters degree so I’m educated enough to work, but I prefer being at home. There is nothing wrong with that at all.

Does your partner get to make/take that choice, or just you?

@FloconDeNeige

If the answer is no, then your scorn is probably coming from a place of jealousy, rather than concern!!

And we’re back to the jealousy argument again. Didn’t take long! Is it really so hard to grasp that there are a sizeable number of women out there who don’t ‘need’ to work, but choose to?

I’m one of them. Either myself or my DH could stop working tomorrow. Our lifestyle wouldn’t fundamentally change, other than we’d save less each month. I choose to work for a variety of reasons, one being that I actually love what I do. I spent many years at university (7 in fact) to get to where I am and I’m not about to give it up just because we could comfortably live off my DH’s salary.

I didn't say you didn't exist. I said that there very very few women who are in your situation. All power to you, if you prefer to work because you want to. It's just a valid a choice as what I choose to do.

If you're in the situation that you are, then you have a choice. So no, you're not going to be jealous because you're doing what you want to do. Someone who isn't in your situation doesn't have that choice!

I choose to work, in part because I enjoy it. If I had a huge lottery win tomorrow, I would still work. Probably not in exactly the same role, it’s fair to say.

However, there are lots of women who ‘need’ to work and also enjoy their jobs. This has been me in the past - when I was single for a start.

The idea that all working women are all secretly jealous of SAHMs is absolutely laughable.

It is very stressful being the sole earner, no doubt. And I would 100% agree that it has to be a joint decision. Maybe there should be some kind of process like the ore wedding counseling couples do before a church wedding to make the agreement clear and in full knowledge of the consequences for both parties.
But for those men who do complain about it I would like to know if they have experienced any personal benefits to having had a sahp for their kids. It's certainly easier to get promoted when you don't have to leave promptly everyday to get to the child minder, or take time off because the baby is ill. Being able to travel for work at short notice. Just knowing that someone else has all that covered is a big advantage and one that often families with 2 working parents (especially women, who are seen as the default parent even when both work ft) don't benefit from.
Quite a lot of men have been willing to see their wives lose out on the benefits of working all the time that they personally were gaining from it, but want to see their wives return to work as soon as the kids are in school and they perceive less benefit to themselves. But they don't account for the fact that sah has made it harder for the wife to go back. Or they expect her to do a min wage job that still fits around the kids even if she had a decent career before, so that he isn't inconvenienced by having to do a real 50/50.
And this comes back to the idea that people are only seen as valuable if they are directly generating income and I think that's what we need to shift away from

Interesting that you're posting this just as you're going back to work, OP. You can't be this naive surely?

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

I tend to agree. Many men are happy to have their cake and eat it.

The idea that women become PT or SAHP post mat leave is ingrained in our society. This idea comes from both sexes. Yes, some men want a SAHP so they can progress in their careers but equally many women want to work PT or become a SAHP because they don’t want to miss out on that time with their children (completely understandable).

This won’t change until there is more equity in hours worked, childcare and housework post mat leave. A lot of men and women don’t want that to happen.

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously that’s true as well.
Just because someone isn’t directly generation income doesn’t mean they’re valuable. However equally there’s no visibility of what they’re doing.
If we treated being a SAHM like a job with agreed roles and responsibilities then the scope of what’s being done becomes clearer.
For example I know one SAHM 2 kids in school and then to tutoring after, all housework
dinner etc done by 5 and both husband and wife relax after work. Another spends a lot of time ferrying up and down, husband does some chores and they have a cleaner and get takeaway a lot.

For some reason a lot of people find detailed discussion cold, corporate and calculative. But this is exactly what you need to do if you want a fair balance. Working spouse thinks SAHP just sits around all day and SAHP thinks working spouse isn’t doing enough.

@FloconDeNeige

OP, you starting this thread and your subsequent stance on it, just makes people think that you’re not really very secure with having being a SAHM.

If it’s worked for you and you’re perfectly happy with your choices, why do you even care? Why do you care that people advise that the SAHM position is considered with caution, as it has real, potentially catastrophic consequences for a significant number of people (as evidenced by the daily threads on here). These are constant proof that many women have not ‘factored the risk in’, as Paloma says they have.

The super-wealthy and those with children who require round-the-clock care need not pay any heed to such advice as it doesn’t apply to them. Apparently it doesn’t apply to you either, so why do you want to suppress messages that could help others less fortunate than you?

Exactly ! So a pregnant woman asks " should I SAH?" and posters advise caution, longterm financial risks, pensions etc . Why would a rich SAHM managing her DHs portfolio jump in saying no dont worry, look at me ! Baffling If it doesnt apply to you , well fine but why bother commenting?

Some people have husbands who are away on business a lot. Some people are ex-pats and have spent years shifting from country to country. Not everyone has 1 or 2 children - some may have a few more than this. Some people have husbands who prefer them not to work, either for cultural reasons or who knows what.

As for “several deviations from the norm” - who gets to declare what is the SAHM norm fgs! A woman who is not even a SAHM and declares she has no interest in becoming one?

People SAH for all kinds of reasons and on all kinds of circumstances so you can’t just high-handedly dismiss the ones who don’t fit into the “needing of my advice and at risk” bracket because it didn’t fit with your agenda. Look at the wider picture and just accept that women are making decisions in totally different contexts and you are no more “standard” than anyone else..

@Drunkenmonkey

The thing that annoys me most on sahm threads is when a sahm says she has chosen to be home to be there more for the kids emotionally, help with homework, and be more involved in their lives. Then a working mum comes on and says 'dont you think I do all of that AND WORK' There are advantages and disadvantages to working or being at home and for many it isn't a choice but to disregard the hours when someone is at home and pretend it is worthless time is unhelpful and wrong and it's what can come across as really disparaging to SAHMs. I work three days but I do really miss seeing my child after school on those 3 days, it is such a rush to do dinner, bath and bed and they are often tired and grumpy, so I can see a huge advantage to being at home with school age kids. Unless you can work 9-3 which very few jobs allow.

I agree with you.

I work a hell of a lot of hours. Sometimes I have to stay away from home. Yes I do life admin, cooking, cleaning etc and look after my child alongside that, and overall my hours are way more than my SAHM did when I was growing up, but I wouldnt begrudge that. She had less household income as a result - so bonus for me - but then on the flip side, my mum was always there for me. She came on every trip, was there to cook for me every night, helped with homework, played with me all the time etc. She never said, as I sometimes have to to my child, sorry you need to watch your film mummy is working. It is silly not to recognise that just a SAHM arent having it all as they have to contend with breaks in career/less money/less progression, those of us who continue in our career also arent having it all as we arent spending as long with our children and having as involved a role as we would if at home all the time