For thinking that if a child comes to your house, you're responsible for them?

[SteveBuscemisRheumyEye]

There's a girl who lives near by who knocks on our front door every day, saying she wants to play with DD. DD does not want to play out so the girl asks to come in. At the moment I've had the reason of Covid for saying no to coming in, but DH thinks I'm BU not to allow them in the garden.

My issue is this - I know nothing about this kid other than her name and that she's 10. I think she lives with her grandparents locally, half the week. I've told her before that I really need to speak to them to check it's okay etc, and she just said "it's fine, they don't mind". Obviously I mind!

DH says just leave them to it and let them play in the garden, whereas I don't want to be responsible for a child that I know nothing about! DH thinks that I'm overthinking, but I work with vulnerable kids meaning my conduct in and outside of work needs to be impeccable. Imagine she had an accident or made a claim against one of us or something?

I asked where her grandparents live but she was quite evasive. She has also told my DD that she was excluded from the school DD goes to, and is now at a PRU. Is this colouring my view?

She's 10, DD is 8 and has ASD (if relevant!).

Given your jobs, don't you have to report any safeguarding concerns? To me this is a really clear one - 10 year old girl walking the streets and going to the home of a total stranger to her carers.

Lots of kids play in our garden. I keep a general eye on them but I don't look after them. I didn't invite them over or make any indication I would be looking after them. Their parents or childminders etc are responsible for them. It is totally different to when I invite a child here to play and provide snacks, sometimes entertainment and am responsible for them. Just as I don't expect people to look after my DC when they go out to play. It would be very rude to let your child play in somebody's garden without a formal invite if that were your expectation.

For those saying let the child in... I don't have kids, live with my DH but have a dog that a child might feasibly see and want to play with.

If a strange child knocks on my door and ask to come in and play with the dog, should I say yes? And you don't think there's anything to be concerned about that me and DH would be in the house with a child whose parents/guardians we did not know.

That seems an absurd situation, and even if the parents said it was okay.

Having a child doesn't make OP any more suitable to be around children than me and DH, so the same logic applies... If it would be inappropriate for me to let them in to play with the dog, then it's also inappropriate for the OP to let them in to play with DD (unless DD wanted to play and they were friends!).

that's a good point actually, is there an actual reason why OP's DD doesn't want to play with this child?
I hope not and it's just that she doesn't want to play with her, but it's worth asking if there is a reason

I had an experience a little like this with grandchildren of an elderly neighbour. The entire street did, actually.

There was something very off about one particular child in the family of three girls, though the other two were probably just better able to ingratiate themselves with adults. I doubt any of them turned out well.

The girls stayed with their grandmother for a few weeks one summer. I suspect their mother was either in the pokey or in rehab. All the neighbours who had kids, including kids many years younger than this particular girl, got persistent knocking on their doors from about 8am daily, with this child basically unable to take a hint when doors remained resolutely shut, and when a door was opened she wouldn't take no for an answer - stood there whining about wanting to play.

Early in the horror, my DCs used to play out front with neighbours, and the three girls glommed onto the group. When the group moved into my back garden one afternoon, the three did too. As I folded laundry in the basement I heard conversation upstairs and found the most problematic girl leading my youngest DD by the hand into my house, asking where my bedroom was. When she saw me, she produced a charming smile and complimented me on my outfit . I sent her packing and kept youngest DD in 'because it's getting too hot out there'. My DCs stopped playing out front for the rest of the girls' stay.

A few days later the girl knocked on my door and said she and her sisters wanted to borrow my DCs' bikes to ride around. Then a day later she asked me for money to go to the local public pool and some extra for snacks.

None of us wanted to go directly to the elderly neighbour to confront her about her granddaughter's behaviour. She was a lovely old lady, her husband was partially paralysed, and we didn't want to heap trouble on her. But we all heaved a massive sigh of relief when the girls' mother took them all home.

A few years later I got a bill from a mobile phone company for service for someone with my surname and my address, but this girl's first name. If she isn't in prison for fraud, she should be.

@SteveBuscemisRheumyEye, I would find out where she is living, who the supposed carer is, and call social services. I would call the school she is attending too.

Something is very wrong in her life if she is knocking on strangers' doors.

DH says just leave them to it and let them play in the garden, whereas I don't want to be responsible for a child that I know nothing about! DH thinks that I'm overthinking, but I work with vulnerable kids meaning my conduct in and outside of work needs to be impeccable

I think your instincts are sound, & that DH is being dismissive about your personal concerns about being in loco parentis to a child whose parents you don;t yet have a green light from, & disrespectful of your professional reputation & experience.

Do you need to remind him who's the safeguarding expert here, & suggest he winds his beak in?

It matters not that she's 10, you need to speak to her grandparents FIRST and make a decision as to whether you want her in your house. As for the persistent knocking, she obviously doesn't know about boundaries, it's rude and she's old enough to know better. I wouldn't let her in the house and if she played with your child outside, I'd be inclined to supervise. Yes, caution is best until you know what the deal is.

DH is the bloody Deputy Head of a PRU, one that I also worked at so we're both very aware of vulnerable children's risks and needs

Ooops. As you were, maybe its MY neck that needs winding in ;)
Sorry DH.

But really. In light of his own qualifications, he has no excuse to be this gormless about someone else's child, whose carers probably have no clue where she is, does he?

DH feels sorry for her.

Well so do I.
But I can no more offer her a playdate round my gaff, without her grandparents knowing where she is, that can DH & I'm gobsmacked you had to point that put to him.

Or did he do the classic "aw go on, let her play" to relieve his feelings, but expect YOU to be the one facilitating said play?

@OverTheRubicon it's impossible to report concerns as I don't know who this child is. As I've said, I plan to try to speak to her grandparents. I also know that knocking on neighbours doors, in the absence of any other concerns will not come anywhere near meeting threshold.

@Badgerlock42 exactly - this has been clearly pointed out to him by me this evening. He now very much sees my point

I was a little bit surprised by your DH response initially, especially with both of your professional experiences.

But then I had logged on to this thread perhaps expecting it to be about older children. I have never felt the same way about a good friend's DH when he explained that at a party for his oldest DD age 17 he had found 2 kids shagging in the downstairs loo and it wasnt really anything to do with him. It was, he was the only adult present that evening. I sometimes wonder if men take a more pragmatic rather than emotional view.

But yes (proper) safeguarding thoughts are the right path to take.

I would insist on seeing/speaking with the grandparents.

This sounds like neglect to me, or that something else is going on in the home.

I was abused and neglected as a child and remember the feeling of being alone and no one wanting to get involved. Because even if you're a child you're seen as a threat or an unwanted hassle no one wants to deal with. I remember constantly being hungry, and constantly asking adults for food, and being ignored - but one day I told one of the parents and he gave me a box of crackers. I was about 8 then, and I still remember it.

Hopefully not, but this child seems to be crying out for help.

Either way a visit with the grandparents should clear some things up, whether something's wrong or whether she needs to learn not to knock on peoples' doors.

My DS once had a kind of friend like this that just turned up. He seemed okay at first but was very vague about where he lived. We used to walk him home with the intention I would meet his parents but I'm convinced it was never his real home. So I never met them and he would be at ours for hours. He was only about 10.

The friendship broke up after he had loaned one of DSs books, had so many excuses about not returning it and when he did it was absolutely wrecked.

I felt sorry for him but like you I felt responsible for him whilst he was with us and wondered where his parents thought he was. Children like this are so vulnerable.

@StillWeRise

that's a good point actually, is there an actual reason why OP's DD doesn't want to play with this child? I hope not and it's just that she doesn't want to play with her, but it's worth asking if there is a reason

It may just be that she doesn't want to play with a random older child, that for some reason has spotted her, and decided to come around to play.

OP's daughter is 8 years old and has ASD, which potentially makes her vulnerable. The 10 year old is a stranger, and sorry but not all children are nice, and her motives for deciding to play with the 8 year old may not be totally innocent.

DD doesn't really want to play with her because she is generally exhausted from having to interact at school. She isn't really very interested in other children, but is incredibly polite and compliant, which is why I advocate for her. I won't make her play with a child she doesn't know for the sake of that child; DD needs a lot of time to "recover" from being social at school and home is her safe space.

We had a problem with children constantly knocking a couple of years ago. Our (then) 5 year old DD has ASD, and a few older children from her school (aged 6-7) began knocking for her to come out and play. I wouldn’t let her out to play alone at that age regardless, but especially not because of her autism, it makes her very vulnerable. So instead they began asking to play in our garden; I wouldn’t have minded so much if it had just been occasionally, but it became a daily thing, they were trashing our garden, eating loads of food and I had to supervise them to ensure that they weren’t being unkind to our DD or influencing her to do things that she wouldn’t normally do. Our situation was different to OP’s as I do vaguely know their parents, but I also supervise/educate children for work, I don’t want to spend my weekend looking after others peoples children as well. Anyway, even when I refused it seemed that these children couldn’t take no for an answer (I strongly suspect that they just always wanted to come and play at our house as our DC have nice snacks and toys and they weren’t actually interested in being DD’s friends) and it began to upset my daughter that they were coming to the house but I wouldn’t constantly let them come round, it just became really disruptive and would upset her. So in the end I got a Ring doorbell and now just ignore it if it’s them; it was the best solution for us and our DC is no longer unsettled by them and has built better friendships elsewhere with parents who arrange proper play dates with us and don’t expect us to be free childcare.

I find it sad when I watch some of those children playing out on their own for hours, often on their own. They don’t seem to go in for regular mealtimes and I know their parents barely check on them and those children could be gone for hours before anyone might realise. On more than one occasion I’ve had to go and pick a child up who has fallen off their bike or scooter and has hurt themselves, but their parents are nowhere to be seen and have no idea what’s happened until I arrive on their doorstep with their bleeding child. But at the end of the day I have to prioritise the welfare of my own children and I can’t give all these other children the time, care and food that they want at our house. I have reported my concerns to the school at times but it seems that as long as the children’s basic needs are being met, nothing changes.

Say you'll invite her over to play on the condition that she gives you her grandparents' number or lets you walk her home to speak to them first.

I would call ss and express my worries. I would not let her into my house and I wouldn't let her play with my dd. Sorry, but she may be a negative influence on my child! You don't know what kind of child she is, what kind of traumas she has been through and what behaviour she thinks is acceptable. Stop answering the door after reporting to ss.

DD doesn't really want to play with her because she is generally exhausted from having to interact at school.

Apart from the above I’d say YABU.
When I was a child we always went into each other’s houses and didn’t need our parents to meet.
Even now with my DD I’ve not met all of the parents of the children she hangs around with. If it is in your garden/house then there’s nothing to worry about. The only time I’d want to meet the parents is if they’re going into their home and I’d just want to put my mind at rest - but even then you can’t really tell.

Any loss of "innocence" that may have been inflicted on this poor waif are hardly her fault are they?

Of course not, but should the OP just let her in to possibly be a bad influence on her own dd? Ten year olds have been known to do awful things (Jamie Bulger, anyone?) I think the OP is absolutely correct to not allow this child in.

This 10 year old may be no risk to your child at all, but she has had a very different childhood to your DD.

An similar age child (stranger) came into our garden one afternoon uninvited, wanting to play with my 4-5 year old. I wasn't keen but didn't know what to do. I grabbed my phone to ring her parents (she said she knew their number) and in that time she had taken my DC by the hand and led them out of the garden.

I'll be honest, I never expected a child to take my child. They hadn't got far but the 10 year old probably thought it was normal to roam the streets and didn't think it was a problem to take my child with them.

I think your plan sounds like a good one OP. This girl is being neglected. You know about safeguarding so you know she meets some of the criteria for neglect.

@spongedog

I was a little bit surprised by your DH response initially, especially with both of your professional experiences.

But then I had logged on to this thread perhaps expecting it to be about older children. I have never felt the same way about a good friend's DH when he explained that at a party for his oldest DD age 17 he had found 2 kids shagging in the downstairs loo and it wasnt really anything to do with him. It was, he was the only adult present that evening. I sometimes wonder if men take a more pragmatic rather than emotional view.

But yes (proper) safeguarding thoughts are the right path to take.

Two teenagers who are presumably over the age of consent is not at all the same as a 10 year old knocking on strangers doors. (Not excusing the two in the loo, awful behaviour in somebody else home!)