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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think the benefits system needs an overhaul...

165 replies

Barbitchurate · 09/05/2021 10:33

So I am currently going through benefits applications and it's been pretty eye opening. I have three nationalities - a little outing - but have spent a fair amount of time in the UK now and have worked and contributed into the system, but I equally understand there's people who rely on benefits who cannot contribute prior to needing them.

The first thing that struck me when I moved to the UK was that undergraduate students here are not expected to work - the expectation is for students to take out a student loan. Where I came from the expectation was made clear that you had a job, student loans and grants were quite complicated and definitely didn't cover all of your university education; to be honest I didn't really look into it because the expectation was you got a job alongside your studies.

I had to claim benefits due to unemployment and a pandemic-delayed start to a new job - I didn't claim until I was basically hitting my overdraft limit and the job centre coach told me off for this. Apparently I should have claimed the moment I was giving my redundancy notice - opps on my part.

I'm a little shocked though that there is no budgeting / financial sessions or advice when making a claim, and this was brought out again in a documentary I was watching where a care leaver had spent all his UC in the first day of getting it, he was already living in a homeless hostel, but I sat watching and wondered how he would ever be able to improve his situation if nobody explained to him about budgeting and financial skills.

When making my claim I wasn't asked about any lifestyle factors - nothing about children's attendance in school (I don't have kids yet, but I have found out this is not asked), nothing about drug use, alcohol use or smoking. To me it feels like this could be the time that people are offered support for these things - they are reaching out already to make a claim (and no, it was not easy), so perhaps it is the right time to offer additional services to them as well, particularly with a wrap around on budgeting and finance.

In Australia benefits are linked to certain things (vaccination, school attendance) in many states - I'm not totally sure I agree with all of this but I do think that systems could be changed so that child health and education were in some way linked but did not necessarily determine benefits. It could perhaps go a long way to alleviated the loop of generational benefits claims if done correctly, but what would correct look like?

The other thing is, I am actually going to be signed off due to ill health, due to an impending procedure. I've been told that in that time I won't get any job centre support as I will be signed off - so despite the fact I will have a return to work date (or fitness to work date) two months ahead, I won't be able to attend courses, or look for employment or get employment advice during those months. This automatically means that when I am well, I will most likely have to be switched to the non-illness benefit (JSA?) for a period of time to job hunt - wouldn't it be better that there was a system that helped people who were unwell look for appropriate work for their condition, so that when they improved their was minimum time spent on JSA (naturally, if the individual wanted this, I do appreciate some illnesses mean this is not possible).

OP posts:
MyRight · 09/05/2021 15:17

@safeornotsafe

MyRight. There isn't vast amounts of support. It maybe depends where you live but where I am trying to get support has pushed me over the edge and made me feel more ill. It's the worse thing worse than abuse and disability sometimes spending days making phone calls, people not replying to phone or email messages where they're being asked to help, appointments not being available. Also places legally supposed to do things but they dont including social care. There may be support officially but not reality. I'm not able to work currently but I know the biggest problem for disabled people who can work is employers discriminating because of work gaps or because of adjustments needed. I probably won't change but I wish people admitted it instead of blaming people by saying they don't want support.
What support isn’t available to you? Who are you phoning and emailing? And what legal things are social care not doing? I have disabilities so I am perfectly aware that not all employers are equal but lots are willing and able to make adjustments.
AwaAnBileYerHeid · 09/05/2021 15:22

I wonder how many people who harp on about benefits, the levels of payment, how easy/hard they are to get have actually lived off benefits for any period of time...?

Bythemillpond · 09/05/2021 15:26

Dh applied for a job at the job centre on the recommendation of a telephone call. He actually applied for 2 jobs in different areas.

He filled out the questionnaire with exactly the same answers.

One area said he was through to the next level , the other area said he had failed the questionnaire
With the one he passed he got through to the next level then heard nothing again.

Babyroobs · 09/05/2021 15:31

@AwaAnBileYerHeid

I wonder how many people who harp on about benefits, the levels of payment, how easy/hard they are to get have actually lived off benefits for any period of time...?
I think it's very hard for single people on basic Uc who are not working but it becomes a lot more generous when you have kids and get a work allowance on the claim. Also for people on disability benefits who get extra premiums etc, I actually think the amounts are more than enough to live on, but basic ESA without the premiums is dire.
WhatWouldPhyllisCraneDo · 09/05/2021 15:35

I didn't think JSA and ESA still existed. Confused
The system needs an overhaul to make it less bloody confusing.

Babyroobs · 09/05/2021 15:37

@WhatWouldPhyllisCraneDo

I didn't think JSA and ESA still existed. Confused The system needs an overhaul to make it less bloody confusing.
There are still a lot of people on old style legacy benefits still on income related ESA and contributions based JSA and ESA still exist for people who have paid sufficient NI contributions.
Babyroobs · 09/05/2021 15:37

@WhatWouldPhyllisCraneDo

I didn't think JSA and ESA still existed. Confused The system needs an overhaul to make it less bloody confusing.
It has just been overhauled to make it less confusing - Universal credit has replaced six means tested benefits to simplify things ! They won't overhaul it again any time soon.
WhatWouldPhyllisCraneDo · 09/05/2021 15:39

Thanks @Babyroobs. I was told there was no ESA at all. Yet seems I could have been claiming contribution based for the last year instead of struggling while I wait for my assessment for whatever the fuck I was being assessed for is processed.

Babyroobs · 09/05/2021 15:40

@WhatWouldPhyllisCraneDo

Thanks *@Babyroobs*. I was told there was no ESA at all. Yet seems I could have been claiming contribution based for the last year instead of struggling while I wait for my assessment for whatever the fuck I was being assessed for is processed.
You wont have missed out on money as contributions based ESA would be deducted pound for pound from Uc anyway ( assuming that's what you are claiming ). With the covid uplift you would still have been getting more on Uc than ESA.
WhatWouldPhyllisCraneDo · 09/05/2021 15:40

Well it wasn't overhauled very well. I have no idea if my assessment was for PIP or ESA/LCWRA. They don't answer messages in my journal, I think they've replied once in the last year. And I can't get through on the phone. Confused
Maybe I'm just thick.

WhatWouldPhyllisCraneDo · 09/05/2021 15:41

Oh ok. I didnt get the covid uplift anyway.

Babyroobs · 09/05/2021 15:45

@WhatWouldPhyllisCraneDo

Well it wasn't overhauled very well. I have no idea if my assessment was for PIP or ESA/LCWRA. They don't answer messages in my journal, I think they've replied once in the last year. And I can't get through on the phone. Confused Maybe I'm just thick.
If you are on basic UC and are too unwell to work then you will likely be being assessed for LCWRA. PIP is nothing to do with Universal credit, and would involve a seperate assessment. If you are warded LCWRA on Uc you will get an extra £343 per month on your UC claim and it will be backdated to the fourth Uc assessment period after you started handing in sick notes. Everyone on UC will be getting the £80 extra Uc uplift unless you ahve only just gone onto UC.
Babyroobs · 09/05/2021 15:47

@WhatWouldPhyllisCraneDo

Well it wasn't overhauled very well. I have no idea if my assessment was for PIP or ESA/LCWRA. They don't answer messages in my journal, I think they've replied once in the last year. And I can't get through on the phone. Confused Maybe I'm just thick.
I don't understand why you can't get through on the phone. I ring Uc a couple of times a week as part of my job and don't have any problems getting through. When you send a message on your journal put it under payments as that will go straight to your case manager. So on your home page when it asks what the message is about select payments. case managers generally answer questions quicker.
WhatWouldPhyllisCraneDo · 09/05/2021 15:49

Thanks for explaining the LCWRA thing. It must have been that that I applied for then. I've actually got a telephone appointment tomorrow so maybe they'll have some idea of if I'll ever actually get it. I suspect not as the appointment is to discuss my 'commitments'.

Nope. Don't get the uplift. Well I suppose I technically do, but I lose it again because of the cap. Which despite a PP thinking it needs to be lowered leaves us with not enough to live on most months.

Anyway. I didn't mean to derail the thread. Sorry OP.

StrictlyAFemaleFemale · 10/05/2021 19:42

Do you have what we can national insurance or is that the unemployment insurance? And, do you have to pay separate health insurance too?
We have tax, and a work market contribution which I think pays for sickness benefit. The unemployment insurance is separate and voluntary - I pay about 50 quid a month which is tax deductable. Half the country has private health insurance to varying degrees. It helps with things like counselling, fysio, dental.

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