To be cross with our childminder?

[ranging]

Name changed.

DD has been going to the same childminder since she was 8 months and she is now 2.5. She absolutely loves it there and she's very kind and friendly, I get lots of crafts home that DD does and they go out and do a lot.

DD is going through a challenging phase, not doing as she's told, very stubborn, sometimes hitting and biting.

When I picked her up on Friday, the childminder said that she had taken her shoes and socks off in the car and was refusing to put them back on, so she took her out the car and put him on the (wet and muddy) ground in her bare feet and told her basically that's what you get for not putting your shoes on. She apparently got upset by this and then finally allowed her to put her shoes back on.

I was a bit taken aback by this, AIBU to tell her I am not happy about this at all? I'm not sure if this is an ok tactic to use with a toddler but I never would and don't want anyone else to treat her like that either.

@DoItAfraid

Surely mentioning your relevant job role with no identifying features is fine?

YABU. And despite many people pointing out why, you still believe you are not. Why post on AIBU then?

I came on to say YABU, nothing was going to happen to your DD by being a bit chilly for a second, well done to the childminder, but I can see that it's already been said!

@WhereYouLeftIt

YABU. And despite many people pointing out why, you still believe you are not. Why post on AIBU then?

This. 👏👏👏

I think natural consequences are better. Waiting until the journey had finished and then walking out in bare feet to wherever they had intended to be going. I think stopping the car for an acting out of what happens if, is overly dramatic. After all, you don't need shoes on when you're seated in a car. Maybe the shoes feel uncomfortable with the feet extended as they would be, but not when feet are down.

I think it will depend on your child, in terms of whether it is going to have proved to be effective. Some children would process this as having been a 'Right! I'll show you,' sort of adult response and sense some irritation . I don't think suddenly stopping the car in the middle of a journey, for effect, is sensible, either. The child might later think that suddenly stopping and opening the car door is an effective dramatic and attention-gaining tactic.

But most of all, I'd wonder if the childminder was angry inside, and there was a bit of, ' Right! You're not getting the better of me! ' feeling behind her response. I know little from first hand experience about raisinga neurotypical toddlers, as my son is autistic, but I feel that you may have to ask yourself if the biting and hitting is in the range which toddlers tend to do. I'm sorry, I don't know. You may need to consider if your childminder is struggling a bit, and feeling angry. Would it help to ask advice from an expert about the aggression and check the childminder knows how to manage challenging behaviour.

@WaltzingBetty

Yes, but the buggy isn't causing her physical discomfort. Neither is standing on slightly damp ground for a few seconds.

She didn't make her walk over hot coals!

She used a natural consequence of choosing not to wear shoes to show the value of shoes.

You by comparison would punish your child by forcing her into a buggy, physically restricting her movement and stopping her social interaction with her friends. A much more severe punishment that teaches her no natural consequences

But you're clearly convinced that you are right and you CM and everyone on this thread is wrong 🤷‍♀️

This.

I’d probably have been a little outraged with my PFB. By contrast this is precisely the type of thing I do with my strong willed 3-year-old!!

I think YABU but I get it

Using natural consequences is a good technique and far more effective than reasoning with a two year old who is either not listening or doesn't understand.

It sounds like your dd is going through a challenging period and I would think carefully whether in your wish to protect and nurture your dd, you aren't minimising the consequences of poor behaviour. Eg walking away from a tantruming toddler seems wrong but as long as you are keeping an eye on them it can work better than picking them up.

it seemed punishing and the thought of my daughter being uncomfortable or cold isn't a pleasant one

I don't see this as a punishment - more a consequence. Being uncomfortable and cold isn't the worst thing in the world.

Yes, but the buggy isn't causing her physical discomfort.

It will if she never learns to put shoes and socks on. I should think if she reaches 8 years old and you're still having the shoe fight, being in a buggy will be really physically uncomfortable.

You're teaching her that if she doesn't want to put shoes on, you'll fix it for her so she doesn't have to.

@soditall56. What about teachers at preschool or school? Should they moderate their discipline techniques to accommodate multiple parenting styles?

I'd always assumed one of the advantages of childminders/nursery was to acclimatise children gently to the notion that they don't rule the roost in certain settings and have to moderate their behaviour to fit in with the group and the group rules.

Parents like you Op are the reason discipline is such q problem in many schools. Your child was acting like brat and your childminder briefly put her on the floor. Reading your subsequent posts just show how you enable your child. Toddlers are difficult, it doesn’t sound like yours is any different to most. However, if you have a very clear vision of how every single thing should be dealt with, you should stay home and not work. If not, you have to respect that Childminder’s and nurseries will have their own (not at all harmful) methods.

I assume you are in the UK? It certainly wasn't cold on Friday.
If you don't wear shoes and socks, your feet get muddy, wet and cold-childminder proved the consequences of this and taught your toddler a valuable lesson.
No harm done and yabu.

@OhRene

I used to run playgroups through the week. Dozens of local kids and they all l came from birth and stayed throughout nursery age. You could tell pretty early on which kids would be regular biters, hitter, snatchers and tantrummers. It was almost always in direct correlation with the style of parenting their mums used (I could say dads too but none ever came). It was the mums who dismissed, excused or accepted certain behaviours by a) age, b) phases or c) things that happened that day/week/month.

I learned plenty from that.it's served me well parenting. Passive parenting causes negative behaviour.

👏👏👏 I second this as an EY specialist.

@movingquandry . Love it! Been there too, and also have feisty young ladies here, both going into male dominated professions.

As long as the CM was calm and explained the process (“I’m going to take you out of the car now. Would you like to put your socks & shoes on so your feet don’t get wet and muddy?” Child refuses, CM takes out the car) rather than doing any of it in anger then it’s fine.

I do think if it was handled more in this way that would be ok, but the way OP described it sounded like maybe it wasn't handled that sensitively? OP will have a better handle on the childminder's manner than anyone else here.

OP I'm interested to hear that your DD behaves WORSE there than at home.

IME that's quite unusual unless the child is struggling with the setting in some way.

Most children save their unwanted behaviour up for when they're at home.

I think stopping the car for an acting out of what happens if, is overly dramatic

Where did you get that from? There's no indication that that is what happened..

Putting her in the buggy to see her friends running about is the actual punishment.
It's you punishing her not the cm. The cm used natural consequences to help understanding. You punishing her has had no effect as it's pointless. If I was you I'd come away from thinking about punishment and more along the lines of helping DD to understand the point of things

Sounds perfectly fine to me. I'd have done the same. The only time I haven't is when i knew there'd be hazards on the floor outside and it was a nightmare trying to get shoes on a kid that didn't want shoes on.

Even if it had been snowing it really wouldn't have been an issue to touch the ground for a few seconds.

If she'd made her walk barefoot for an hour to prove a point then I'd agree with you.

I think it depends on how it was done. If cm was quite angry and shouty about it and and placed her roughly on the ground with a "that's what you get attitude" and treated it like a punishment, then not okay.

I think if cm spoke with her calmly and placed her on the ground gently in an "okay, if that's really what you want" kind of way whilst patiently waiting for DD to realise it's not really what she wants and immediately picked her up and helped her put her shoes back on once DD changed her mind, then okay.

I don't think it's a bad thing to let children make choices and then see the natural consequences of those choices (within reason and as long as it is safe). I do think it's wrong to use physical discomfort to punish a child. It's not clear from the description which was happening.

I think it’s a really good idea. Much kinder and effective than strapping her up in a pushchair.
The cm used consequence, you use restraint. I know which I would prefer.

I wish I had thought of it when mine were at that stage!

OP maybe i didn't make it clear. I meant she needs to learn to wear shoes.
I wasn't agreeing with you

Wow. There are some horrible replies on here. OP I agree with what your CM did, but that doesn't mean I think you are a terrible parent or your child is a brat. Toddlers are hard work, they are learning and developing so much and no one gets it perfectly right.

There is a classic children's book called No Shoes For Tom, all about a boy who hates shoes - I thoroughly recommend it.

I wish I'd employed this tactic more with my stubborn, wilful eldest as a toddler! It would have saved countless pointless arguments, wheedling, trying of my patience etc. Looking back I was much too soft about a lot of things and arguing endlessly about things like that only serves to strengthen their power over the adult in charge, so you're always playing catch-up. Letting them see consequences is a good lesson, carefully utilised of course.

YABU and very precious.

I'm on the periphery of some groups of parents who practise 'gentle' and 'attachment' parenting and although much of it isn't for me your childminder's strategy would be perfectly fine by even the most extreme practitioners of that parenting style. She did not shout or use any force, simply showed your child the natural consequences of not wearing their shoes.