To be cross with our childminder?

[ranging]

Name changed.

DD has been going to the same childminder since she was 8 months and she is now 2.5. She absolutely loves it there and she's very kind and friendly, I get lots of crafts home that DD does and they go out and do a lot.

DD is going through a challenging phase, not doing as she's told, very stubborn, sometimes hitting and biting.

When I picked her up on Friday, the childminder said that she had taken her shoes and socks off in the car and was refusing to put them back on, so she took her out the car and put him on the (wet and muddy) ground in her bare feet and told her basically that's what you get for not putting your shoes on. She apparently got upset by this and then finally allowed her to put her shoes back on.

I was a bit taken aback by this, AIBU to tell her I am not happy about this at all? I'm not sure if this is an ok tactic to use with a toddler but I never would and don't want anyone else to treat her like that either.

You could tell pretty early on which kids would be regular biters, hitter, snatchers and tantrummers. It was almost always in direct correlation with the style of parenting their mums used (I could say dads too but none ever came).
It was the mums who dismissed, excused or accepted certain behaviours by
a) age,
b) phases
or c) things that happened that day/week/month.

Biting / hitting snatching and tantrumming ARE all phases, that many kids will go through. And a good EYFS worker knows that.

Recognising it as a phase or an age-appropriate (if unwanted) behaviour or as a result of an external stressor makes sense and can be useful to a parent.

What the real issue is is parents who then don't do anything about the behaviour.

I don't think those two things should be conflated.

YABVU, and quite ridiculous.
Sensible CM and a lightbulb moment for DD with any luck.

The best consequences for a small child are once that are easily linked to the behaviour.

Yes, fighting them into a buggy is an option, but a quick moment of “I don’t like that” by letting them do what they want and realising it’s a bad idea is a much better, and quicker, lesson.

Your childminder hasn’t harmed your DD or done anything hideous or distressing. She asked her to put her shoes on, your DD said no and so she allowed her - safely - to learn why that’s a bad choice.

@Reinventinganna

I think it’s a really good idea. Much kinder and effective than strapping her up in a pushchair. The cm used consequence, you use restraint. I know which I would prefer.

I wish I had thought of it when mine were at that stage!

Agree with this, natural consequences teach and I think what your CM did was a lot less cruel than strapping her forcefully in a buggy and it worked🤷🏻‍♀️

I would say, in times to come, your dd will far likely remember you putting her in the buggy as punishment than she will remember 30 seconds in the mud. As others have said, your consequences aren't working - so why are you continue with them? in my experience, children respond better to situations when you find what is important to them and use that, rather than something that is arbitrary. its like trying to reward a dog with treats when he doesn't care about food. you should applaud your childminders ingenuity

Oh and to add to the incident I shared upthread... my DD also hates getting her feet wet and cold, let alone mud or sticky stuff on her skin. She never goes barefoot even in the garden, she wears slip on shoes (and jelly shoes on the beach).

This simply made the consequences of wearing trainers in puddles and mud more effective. It didn’t occur to me to think the nursery did anything wrong. She learned why we wear wellies that day!

Clearly some parents do complain about this kind of thing though, I’ll never forget the poor manager scrubbing those clearly ruined trainers in a bucket of soapy water when I arrived and apologising like she thought I’d kick off. I reassured her I’d never send her to nursery in footwear I couldn’t afford to replace and thanked her for being brave enough to teach DD why wellies are so important!

Of course she could have kept DD in the nursery but then why should other kids have missed out on the woodland walk just because DD refused to wear wellies? 🤔

If you want personalised 1:1 care for your DD you can always hire a nanny and instruct her what to do when your child acts up. A childminder or nursery have to act in the best interests of all the kids not just yours.

She did not shout or use any force, simply showed your child the natural consequences of not wearing their shoes.

We don't know this, she could have forcibly pulled her out of her car seat with a "THAT'S what you get for not putting your shoes on."

[quote NCAccount]@DoItAfraid

I think she means early years advisor rather than working at Ernst Young...[/quote]
Ah ok if that is the case then I am sorry she has withdrawn her post.

I wasn't trying to be stop her from posting but I hope you understand why I raised it.

Jesus. I despair for the future of some of these kids. They won't know how to deal with anything properly. YABU!!

Most children save their unwanted behaviour up for when they're at home.

In my experience, many parents who are told about their child's negative behaviours in childcare settings think it happens more when not with them when in actual fact, the kids just get away with it at home.

If there are no rules, they cannot break them, right?

My SIL and MIL always used to bitch at me for telling my children off and managing their behaviour, making them eat meals etc.

The ILs always reasoned it by saying, "SIL doesn't need to be telling DNs off, you're being too hard on yours!". Well no, SIL didn't need to tell her kids off because DNs had no boundaries. When they didn't eat their dinners they just dumped them by the sink untouched and got yoghurts and crisps out instead. When DNs didn't want to brush their teeth they didn't have to. (End result was removal of 8 teeth under anaesthetic but no, that wasn't their fault. Oh no.)

You only have one child to look after, your CM has several and can't spend half day day negotiating with various toddlers.

There's nothing wrong with teaching a child natural consequences. I remember an episode of Supernanny where a 4-5 year old girl refused to get dressed so she was taken to school in her pajamas. It only happened once!

I think you are over reacting a bit, but also you are entitled not to want this approach taken by a child minder as you are paying them so you can discuss and either they change approach or you change childminder.

Your daughter wasn't punished - punishments would be taking away a treat or toy, shouting, hitting, time out.

What your daughter experienced was the reality of not putting shoes on, in a way that whilst not pleasant were not harmful as yes the floor will have been damp and cold - but so is the floor in the swimming pool or on a damp beach and we happily let our children stand there.

If you're not happy about it, it's alright to say. Personally i wouldn't mind, but I can see why you do, and it's not precious to set put what you deem acceptable boundaries. The issue though is that presumably she has other mindees, and not putting shoes and socks on means they cannot go out and about, so i would caveat saying something with we will try to address it at home or something.

[quote WaltzingBetty]@DoItAfraid

Surely mentioning your relevant job role with no identifying features is fine? [/quote]
Hi - I am speaking out of concern for the OP - I am not the internet police but if this was linked to the place I work she/he might have some difficult conversations. I know this because this is my job.

Please don't pick on me - I was just hoping the poster could edit her post to avoid being picked up on something harmless but potentially troublesome.

My personal views are irrelevant. Turns out anyway that EY may have related to Early Years.

My post was out of concern that it could be miscontrued for something else.

OP I'm interested to hear that your DD behaves WORSE there than at home

A lot of children behave ‘worse’ in nursery or childminder settings, either because they’re used to getting their own way at home (and it’s a shock when childminder has others to care for as well as you). Or they go through phases of ‘testing’ staff to see how far they can push the boundaries.

Of course if you think she’s genuinely unhappy there you could always move her or get a nanny.

DS refused to put on his jumper and coat to go for a walk on a windy winter's day, I explained they were to keep him warm but he refused, so we went out, we got to the end of the drive before he asked for the coat and jumper. How is what your CM do any different to that? Did my DS get cold, yes briefly, did he learn what coats are for, yes and now wears one without complaint. Her feet got wet and muddy for a few seconds it's a good natural consequence. Forcing her into the buggy potentially involves more physical force and she learns nothing other than she puts her shoes on when she decides she's ready to. Do you think her behaviour is worse for the CM because they have more boundaries? No reason to throw a tantrum if you feel like you're getting your own way.

@ranging

DD is also very sensitive to getting wet and dirty, she hates even having the slightest bit of food or dirt on her clothes or skin and can sometimes get quite distressed. CM knows this.

Maybe she might agree to having her socks and shoes on now. If so job done.

[quote Jellybabiesforbreakfast]@soditall56. What about teachers at preschool or school? Should they moderate their discipline techniques to accommodate multiple parenting styles?

I'd always assumed one of the advantages of childminders/nursery was to acclimatise children gently to the notion that they don't rule the roost in certain settings and have to moderate their behaviour to fit in with the group and the group rules.[/quote]
Of course not but Christ, letting a toddler out the car in the mud as form of punishment for taking their shoes off, really harsh and I wouldn't be happy with that either.

There could have been glass on the ground or similar sharp objects mixed in the mud and the outcome could have been far worse than wet muddy feet.

I think when you use a childminder you may not agree with every thing they do (let's be honest you won't always know). But as long as you have the same ethos, agree with the style and approach etc then you have to let the odd thing slide.
Does she care for your child well? Does your child enjoy being there? Is she learning and thriving in the environment?
To me I'd say think of the bigger picture and let this thing go. Your DD was fine after the incident and if she was uncomfortable it was for a moment only.
Part of being looked after by a childminder is that they are not the only child being looked after and don't get pandered to as much.

Really struggling to see the problem DD had a choice . Are wet cold feet that much of an issue .

Well done to that childminder for teaching your child consequences. Can't wait to see you on the teenage board in 11 years time if you think this is the wrong response!

Sounds like a very good childminder who uses good tactics. If my child was playing up i would be glad that im leaving them with a cm that will use a mild form of discipline to curb behaviour. Out of interest op, how would you have dealt with your dd refusing to wear shoes?

Your CM sounds very sensible. You are lucky to have her.

Also the buggy consequence doesn't teach her anything. It just turns the situation into a battle of wills. If you don't do as you are told, mummy will restrain you and you aren't allowed to play with your friends until you give in to what I want no matter how long it takes. No reason given as to why.

Whereas the CMs approach was short lived, over and done with in minutes and showed your daughter WHY she needed to put them on before putting the choice back in her hands. This is what muddy feet feels like. This is what happens with no shoes. Do you want this or do you want to change your mind and put them on?

I'd be fine with that and probably 'tuck it away' so I could use it again if the situation ever arose again