To be cross with our childminder?

[ranging]

Name changed.

DD has been going to the same childminder since she was 8 months and she is now 2.5. She absolutely loves it there and she's very kind and friendly, I get lots of crafts home that DD does and they go out and do a lot.

DD is going through a challenging phase, not doing as she's told, very stubborn, sometimes hitting and biting.

When I picked her up on Friday, the childminder said that she had taken her shoes and socks off in the car and was refusing to put them back on, so she took her out the car and put him on the (wet and muddy) ground in her bare feet and told her basically that's what you get for not putting your shoes on. She apparently got upset by this and then finally allowed her to put her shoes back on.

I was a bit taken aback by this, AIBU to tell her I am not happy about this at all? I'm not sure if this is an ok tactic to use with a toddler but I never would and don't want anyone else to treat her like that either.

If you really think you're right op, then tell CM. Change CM. That's your options.

I'm with you OP.

If she'd said, ok let's walk without shoes then and your DD had willingly done so and then got muddy etc that's one thing. But this is another.

PFB = Precious First Born

I assumenyour childminder has other children than your dd could they have needed the buggy more?

I have no issue with what the cm did. I also feel like others the buggy is rewarding her as she gets to dictate what happens. She is likely worse behaved at cm because cm isn't fully focused on her and has other stuff going on.

OP just to warn you - this "challenging phase" is called age 2 and 3, so buckle up for hearing about more natural consequences. Toddlers are total idiots and you really wouldn't want a childminder who panders to the stupidity.

PFB = precious first born. Welcome to Mumsnet. We all were more precious with our first borne is if she is your eldest it’s meant fondly / from recognition (my 15 page directional memo to my mother to look after my 4 months old for an afternoon springs to mind / my third sat playing in gravel when she was 10 months by way of contrast)

So what you really wanted was to come on MN and everyone agree with you!! You would then of liked a CM bashing session and you would have been able to ignore the fact that you pander to your child and they reason they are worse at childminders is that she doesn't ignore their bad behaviour!
Get a backbone and identify your child is in need of direction and consequences!

If she’s a childminder she will have the qualifications to look after children. If she has the common sense not to pander to three year olds then she would be an excellent parenting teacher. Listen to her , your child will be benefit in the long run and her teachers will thank you.

YABU.

Your DD has been shown by the CM why she needs shoes and socks.

She didn’t like it? Good, she won’t try it next time because she knows why.

Pick your battles and so on...

I wouldn’t complain to the CM.

Your DD wasn’t hurt.

OP you are ridiculously soft with her and even admit yourself that she behaves much worse there than she does with you. Clearly stronger boundaries and basic cause and effect discipline is what's needed. The childminder had other children to care for too. She cannot be spending excessive amounts of time wrestling your daughter into a buggy and keeping her there until she gives in and puts her shoes on. Then rinse and repeat every time she takes them off. At least this way she learns the lesson immediately and it's likely that she will remember it for next time.

Besides would you want her physically forced into a buggy? Surely that would be more distressing than a few seconds of muddy feet.

I did this with my son at the same age. He refused to put his socks and shoes on after soft play so his only option for getting to the car after was to walk outside without them. It was raining (but not cold or far). He got in the car and said mummy I won’t not put my shoes on again. He’s now 12 and not scarred from it, and he never did refuse to put his shoes on again.

Sorry OP but YABU. I run an early years setting and this sounds like a totally natural consequence to me and similar to what we do. As long as the CM was calm and explained the process (“I’m going to take you out of the car now. Would you like to put your socks & shoes on so your feet don’t get wet and muddy?” Child refuses, CM takes out the car) rather than doing any of it in anger then it’s fine. We have a couple who’ll take their shoes off at every opportunity. Occasionally they stand on a small stone or something that hurts their foot (not seriously, just momentary discomfort). We are sympathetic but not to over the top levels, and we also point out that this is the exact reason we ask them to put their shoes on at preschool - because otherwise they hurt their feet. Natural, real world consequences are a really good and effective way of learning at this age.

It sounds like the buggy isn't giving the consequence that you intended, tbh, if she is repeating the behaviour that gets her 'buggy time'.

Consequences are naturally occuring events. She didn't want her socks and shoes on. Fine. But that meant that as a consequence her feet were bare when they made contact with the ground. She doesn't like her feet getting dirty, so the way to avoid that is to put the socks and shoes on. So it's a 'lesser of two evils' situation.

We all have to make choices in life between something we don't want to do and something we want to do even less. We can't always have an 'I want to do this' option. That's life.

How many more people need to tell you you have over reacted before you accept you are wrong?

It's a natural consequence, it shows children why we put socks and shoes on,.there was no raised voices, no exasperation and no aggression from either side.

My CM has 3 other children the day she has my daughter, and would find it really hard to spend a long period of time trying to get one child to get their shoes on, especially if the other children started to mirror. So I can't say I would have been too upset by it.

That being said, she's your daughter and if it doesn't sit right with you then yes, you do need to raise it. All children are different as are all parents and if you don't want her to use that method then she won't, but you will need to work with her to find a new solution that works for you both rather than just tell her you don't want her to do it and then leave her to figure out the rest

It's interesting how often you refer to what you would have done. Surely the difference is that you trust the childminder to make decisions on your behalf.You're not there and she needs to be trusted to make these decisions without always being intuitive enough to know what you would have done or necessarily follow what you would have done.
Toddlers are challenging, you refer to her behaviour several times.This isn't the childminders fault but she needs to deal with her behaviour every day whilst presumably looking after other children also.
When my children were in daycare they'd have been kept inside until they agreed to put on their shoes and I'm not sure that's any more positive.

I would be annoyed at my child, not the childminder! I'd also be happy that my child was learning consequences from others as well as me. It takes a village to raise a child, and all that.

Absolutely fine. You can't expect your childminder to allow herself to be held to ransom by a stroppy toddler.

Yes, you might not parent like that yourself but it does your child no harm to be reminded that different settings have different standards of behaviour and she'll get short shrift at her childminder (and later on at school) for behaviour which is tolerated at home. I'm often too soft on my 3yo but he's bright enough to know that attention-seeking behaviour that mummy lets him away with will go down like a lead balloon at nursery where he's not the only child the staff have to look after.

I wouldn't put too much emphasis on her being upset by it either... kids that age get upset about all sorts of crazy things (like cutting their apple up if they wanted it whole). They're fine ten minutes later.

YABU. The childminder told you what she had done, but I would have been concerned if she hadn’t mentioned it to you, and you heard it second hand.

OP in the nicest possible way, you are being a bit precious. An icky feeling on her feet is not going to cause your daughter any harm in the long run, it is a little uncomfortable but that is the point. Shoes protect her from that discomfort and now she will realise that it is preferable to being barefoot. She wasn't hurt, she experienced a natural consequence. Going in the buggy is not actually a natural consequence because as she gets older this will no longer be an option. You also haven't said how many/how old the other children the childminder looks after are - it may be that you are able to give more time and one on one attention to your daughter than your childminder can which might be changing your perception.

I'm a childminder. I probably wouldn't do this with my minded kids if I had a buggy there, if we were getting out the car to go somewhere and I didn't have a buggy, short of pinning the child down and forcing the socks and shoes on, not much else you can do. Depends what you prefer.

I would definitely do it with my own children though.

OP, you haven’t answered the question that several people have asked - does the CM have other children and if so, how many?

With that in mind, would you have expected CM to ignore all those other children to pander to your toddler who you already acknowledge is in a difficult stubborn phase?

What she did wasn’t cruel FGS? She taught your toddler actions have consequences, and it worked! Putting her in the pram like you do isn’t exactly a consequence just because she doesn’t like it...

Oh and just to say that of course her behaviour is worse at the CM than at home! She’s being challenged there (in many ways) and has to compete for toys, attention, etc in a way that she doesn’t at home - this is exactly why socialisation (generally through CM/nursery) is so important at this age! The behaviours are ‘worse’ but a totally natural and massively valuable part of their social skill development - it does them no favours to ‘protect’ them from it.

If the childminder pandered to every child in the way you want the kids would have a very long day of waiting for the other kids to agree to everything on their terms leaving no time for fun activities. Is this really what you want?

I ve done this myself with my daughter when she's refused to put her shoes on. Works wonders.