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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be cross with our childminder?

785 replies

ranging · 09/05/2021 09:29

Name changed.

DD has been going to the same childminder since she was 8 months and she is now 2.5. She absolutely loves it there and she's very kind and friendly, I get lots of crafts home that DD does and they go out and do a lot.

DD is going through a challenging phase, not doing as she's told, very stubborn, sometimes hitting and biting.

When I picked her up on Friday, the childminder said that she had taken her shoes and socks off in the car and was refusing to put them back on, so she took her out the car and put him on the (wet and muddy) ground in her bare feet and told her basically that's what you get for not putting your shoes on. She apparently got upset by this and then finally allowed her to put her shoes back on.

I was a bit taken aback by this, AIBU to tell her I am not happy about this at all? I'm not sure if this is an ok tactic to use with a toddler but I never would and don't want anyone else to treat her like that either.

OP posts:
WaltzingBetty · 09/05/2021 23:19

@EarringsandLipstick

Clearly pumper and earrings are the only people whove ever worked with kids, who have kids and who know anything...

Grow up Lyra 😡

Not once have I said anything approaching this.

I don't work with children (and made this clear). I am a parent. And I've repeatedly said it's just my opinion, which is as valid as anyone else's.

However you & Betty refuse to accept others can have different, legitimate opinions.

And it’s perfectly fine for them to rudely and patronisingly disagree

Please point out where I have done this even once

Oh everyone is entitled me to an opinion. There are plenty of folk who think the earth is flat and we're riled by lizard people.

They're entitled to their opinions.

I just think it's nice when opinions are informed by evidence. I've certainly changed my opinion on many issues as the evidence has grown and shifted. I think that is important

I think relying only on your personal viewpoint is dangerous and often quite arrogant.

But, you can make your own choices

WaltzingBetty · 09/05/2021 23:21

It's the process as a whole, in each case

Well I'm just confused.

Pumper said it was the naturalness that mattered and you agreed

Now you're saying it's the process - what dues that mean please?

thehorsealreadybolted · 09/05/2021 23:22

This is a good childminder. She won. It’s when we start bribing and pandering that we’ve lost.

WaltzingBetty · 09/05/2021 23:23

I do realise I'm wasting my breath typing as you will disagree with anything written here that doesn't accord with your own very odd beliefs.

@EarringsandLipstick I've actually asked you quite a lot of questions to try and understand your viewpoint better.
You've refused to answer
I've answered very thing you've asked me.

You've continually thrown accusations at me and called me names. I have continued to be civil to you.

Maybe re-read the thread.

EarringsandLipstick · 09/05/2021 23:23

I think relying only on your personal viewpoint is dangerous and often quite arrogant.

Not personal viewpoint. Personal experience of parenting

But also very happy to listen & consider other views.

You, on the other hand, have refused to engage meaningfully, and just twist & deliberately misinterpret what's being said.

I have an academic role, as it happens, and as I previously posted, know only too well the danger of people with a vague notion of theory, and no understanding of practice and who would fight with their own shadows for kicks

It's hilarious that you are calling anyone other than yourself arrogant!

bellie710 · 09/05/2021 23:24

@ranging

DD is also very sensitive to getting wet and dirty, she hates even having the slightest bit of food or dirt on her clothes or skin and can sometimes get quite distressed. CM knows this.
I would almost guarantee that your child does not behave like this with the CM. As someone who was a nanny for years then a CM children behave very differently for their parents than they do for others. It is almost like a switch being flicked with how behaviour changes when they walk in the door! I think she did a brilliant job, there is nothing more annoying than getting out the car and realising kids have taken shoes and socks off so hopefully your DD will learn not to do it again!
nanbread · 09/05/2021 23:25

This is a good childminder. She won.

I hate this idea that parents have to "win" somehow against our children, like defeating their will is some kind of victory and battle is inevitable.

I don't bribe or pander to my DC and I don't "win" against them either.

WaltzingBetty · 09/05/2021 23:26

Again: post the questions I’ve missed or pack this in. You’re really not covering yourself in glory here.

NO ONE HAS SUGGESTED YOU HAVE MISSED QUESTIONS

I feel like I'm typing in a Greek here.
I've clearly explained the difference between unable to answer and missed answering.

If you don't understand that then I can't help you

EarringsandLipstick · 09/05/2021 23:26

You've refused to answer
I've answered very thing you've asked me.

The exact opposite is true. I've answered every single one of your posts. Where you've asked questions, I've replied (tho you didn't really, you just twisted words).

You've moved on from harassing Pumper now, have you?

You've continually thrown accusations at me and called me names. I have continued to be civil to you.

What names? Do quote!

You need to understand the word civil.

Maybe re-read the thread

I think that's for you to do.

WaltzingBetty · 09/05/2021 23:28

I have an academic role, as it happens,

Yeah you mentioned it.
Twice.

So do I.

I haven't mentioned it because it's irrelevant

Why do you feel the need to keep bringing yours up?

WaltzingBetty · 09/05/2021 23:28

@WaltzingBetty

It's the process as a whole, in each case

Well I'm just confused.

Pumper said it was the naturalness that mattered and you agreed

Now you're saying it's the process - what dues that mean please?

@EarringsandLipstick
AsMuchUseAsAMarzipanDildo · 09/05/2021 23:29

@FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop

the thought of my daughter being uncomfortable or cold isn't a pleasant one.

Christ you're in for a rough ride when she starts school. What will you do when she has to do PE in the rain?

She’ll be back here, moaning, expecting everyone to agree with her. Only to be met with another 30 pages of people telling her she’s being ridiculous and her saying “No I’m not!.
WaltzingBetty · 09/05/2021 23:29

Umm. I wasn't comparing those two examples - it's actually you who are cherry picking

My question was how is the child that is assisted onto her potty by an adult able to learn but the child assisted barefoot into the floor not able to learn?

@EarringsandLipstick

EarringsandLipstick · 09/05/2021 23:31

@WaltzingBetty

It's the process as a whole, in each case

Well I'm just confused.

Pumper said it was the naturalness that mattered and you agreed

Now you're saying it's the process - what dues that mean please?

What?

I don't even know what you mean here?

Surely to God even you get that it's not about any one specific word or phrase?

What do you mean by naturalness? Like natural consequences?

So yes, learning happens (for all humans) through natural consequences. Which wasn't what happened with the DC here.

Toilet training requires 'lifting' (maybe) but it isn't 'lifting' that was the problem in this case

It was the lack of connection, in the DC mind between shoes off / being put on cold ground

I can't explain any further 🤷🏻‍♀️

WaltzingBetty · 09/05/2021 23:32

If you read the OP's post she talks about dealing with this in the context of going to the park/playing with friends. So the assumption is they were going out on an outing.
So outdoor play

So the child wanted to go to her outdoor play/park with no shoes.

The childminder facilitated that
The child changed her mind and the childminder supported that change of mind and shoes were put on.
Where's the punishment?

@EarringsandLipstick

EarringsandLipstick · 09/05/2021 23:32

@WaltzingBetty

Umm. I wasn't comparing those two examples - it's actually you who are cherry picking

My question was how is the child that is assisted onto her potty by an adult able to learn but the child assisted barefoot into the floor not able to learn?

@EarringsandLipstick

Answered above Betty.

I was busy answering another post of yours when that was posted

Not doing so great on the old evidence of many unanswered questions, are you?!

WaltzingBetty · 09/05/2021 23:34

What do you mean by naturalness? Like natural consequences?

No idea

As I clearly said
That's plumper's rationale

You seem to be so keen to defend her it seems that even you donNt understand what she's saying

EarringsandLipstick · 09/05/2021 23:34

@AsMuchUseAsAMarzipanDildo

She’ll be back here, moaning, expecting everyone to agree with her. Only to be met with another 30 pages of people telling her she’s being ridiculous and her saying “No I’m not!.

This is the kind of crap that is making MN such a vile place atm.

Why say this? OP asked one question about one scenario, and that allows you to deduce this?

By all means, tell her she IBU but seriously, this is warranted???

EarringsandLipstick · 09/05/2021 23:35

You seem to be so keen to defend her it seems that even you donNt understand what she's saying

😂😂😂

No, I don't understand what you are saying

Also, I think Pumper is well able to 'defend' herself, should she wish to.

WaltzingBetty · 09/05/2021 23:35

Toilet training requires 'lifting' (maybe) but it isn't 'lifting' that was the problem in this case

Again that's not what plumper said.

She said lifting was forceful and punishing.

Might be worth reading the thread rather than diving in halfway through to argue alongside someone who's posts you haven't read and whiMs reasoning you don't understand

Diverseopinions · 09/05/2021 23:37

It isn't clear from this post whether the CM stopped the car at the intended destination, or whether she was fed up of the child not complying with a request, so dramatically stopped, parked up, demonstrated and said, "Look, this is what the ground feels like - you need those shoes on."

A consequence that the adult models is not a ' natural' consequence, because it's an artificially engenderd result. Letting the child leave the car on arrival, spontaneously, and them experiencing the feeling of wet ground on their skin is a natural result.

Evidently, the context of this situation is significant because if the CM has three children to care for, for example, what do they do if one child refuses a request? When outdoors. If all the kids are going to the park, you could say, " You'll have to use the buggy, if you don't want shoes, as I am not allowed to leave you in the car, and the others want to use the swings."
If a child often didn't want to do particular activities which had been planned, I'd be thinking they ought to have their own dedicated carer, as I don't see that a CM can ethically-speaking force one child to come along outside to accommodate the wishes of the others. A dedicated caregiver might be optimum for a child experiencing behavioural challenges, since hitting or biting: if the other children are on the receiving end, it will become hard fro the CM to cope with the group.

Being in charge of a few children might be why she didn't take time to ask OPs DD what was wrong, because in her position, I would want to establish whether the DD removed her shoes and socks to indicate that she wasn't keen on this outing and the thought of going outside. Maybe she didn't want to go to the park and it's her saying of signalling this. Actually, what does the CM do then, with other children in her care and conflicting wishes? I guess it would depend on the personalities of the children in the group.

If the DD was very upset about the 'consequence' , I don't think it achieved the intended objective. Children don't learn meaningfully from being made to feel upset and even shocked. If the child had tried to exit the car barefoot, she might have extended one toe, found it was cold on the ground, and withdrawn it back into the warm. Nobody voluntarily places both feet down squarely on the tarmac, as would happen when placed there by an adult.

So, if a puppy poohs on the lino, are we to conjecture that the old-fashioned and derided expedient of pushing it's nose into its waste is a way of teaching a puppy a ' natural consequence' is that uncovered pooh in the wrong place might get stuck on the nose? Or is the owner doing this just creating an association between strong, smelly pooh and not having the pooh in the right place? Or is it a punishment ? How we explain that experiment is open to different interpretations ( as is the bare feet experiment) but clearly a dog playfully sniffing its own pooh would be a different experience for them than having their nose forced into it.

WaltzingBetty · 09/05/2021 23:37

No, I don't understand what you are saying

I'm asking for explanations of the arguments that you and plumper have put forward this evening.

If you can't explain them I can fully understand

EarringsandLipstick · 09/05/2021 23:38

She said lifting was forceful and punishing.

Might be worth reading the thread rather than diving in halfway through to argue alongside someone who's posts you haven't read and whiMs reasoning you don't understand

Oh stop. I'm truly leaving you be now. Such a strange way you have.

She didn't say this.

I read a lot of the thread & all relevant posts.

I made my arguments based on the scenario OP posted & the subsequent discussion I was part of.

Stop telling me when I can & can't post. The only poster I don't understand is ...you.

WaltzingBetty · 09/05/2021 23:39

It was the lack of connection, in the DC mind between shoes off / being put on cold ground

There is a literal physical connection between being barefoot and having cold feet Confused

Why would you think a child is incapable of that connection?

EarringsandLipstick · 09/05/2021 23:39

If you can't explain them I can fully understand

I have explained every single point I made. Repeatedly. Unlike you, I've had no difficulty doing so.

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