To be cross with our childminder?

[ranging]

Name changed.

DD has been going to the same childminder since she was 8 months and she is now 2.5. She absolutely loves it there and she's very kind and friendly, I get lots of crafts home that DD does and they go out and do a lot.

DD is going through a challenging phase, not doing as she's told, very stubborn, sometimes hitting and biting.

When I picked her up on Friday, the childminder said that she had taken her shoes and socks off in the car and was refusing to put them back on, so she took her out the car and put him on the (wet and muddy) ground in her bare feet and told her basically that's what you get for not putting your shoes on. She apparently got upset by this and then finally allowed her to put her shoes back on.

I was a bit taken aback by this, AIBU to tell her I am not happy about this at all? I'm not sure if this is an ok tactic to use with a toddler but I never would and don't want anyone else to treat her like that either.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

She wouldn’t have got wet feet if she’d been allowed to stay in the car.

How can the childminder just leave her in the car? The childminder has other children to care for. They cannot sit in a car all day because this child refuses to put shoes on and can't be upset.

The child cannot have it's own way all the time!

She could have carried her in. She could have explained to her that she has to put her shoes on so they can walk indoors. She could have made it into a game - see if you can put them on before I get X out of the car! Any of the above. Not - you haven’t done as I said, here’s your punishment.

It could also be taken as she's not getting her own way there
Give me an example.

If a child always gets what they wants they will appear to never throw tantrums, refuse to do necessary things etc.

I was guilty of believing my own DS was perfectly behaved. Because at home with only me, he generally got what he wanted, because most of the time, his wishes were simple and reasonable - "please can I choose to watch octonauts after tea", "please can I have an apple for snack", "can we go for a walk around the duck pond instead of the woods". I realised when he was 3-4 and started having play dates that actually he was terrible when he had to yield (sometimes) to what another child wanted. This also coincided with his sister getting old enough not to simply follow his wishes in terms of tv choices and the like.

I've got a friend who is very relaxed about behaviour. She was surprised that when he started preschool they felt her son's behaviour could be quite challenging. I noticed it too when our kids had a playdate..... because in my house, there are rules, and he didnt like them! No you can't jump on the sofa, no, we don't hit. So he played up the whole time - to test what he could and couldn't do.

@Pumperthepumper

How is letting her do what she wants (go out without wearing shoes or socks) punishing?

Surely leaving her locked alone in a car is much more so ?

She could have carried her in. She could have explained to her that she has to put her shoes on so they can walk indoors. She could have made it into a game - see if you can put them on before I get X out of the car! Any of the above. Not - you haven’t done as I said, here’s your punishment.

Why do you assume that they were going indoors?

@notacooldad

She wouldn’t have got wet feet if she’d been allowed to stay in the car. You’re expecting quite a lot of cognitive development from a 2.5 year old. And punishing them won’t make them learn faster So a child should stay in the car no matter what? She doesn't want to put her shoes on so everyone would have to wait until she doess what she wants. Awesome! Thats a quick way to allow a child to get to do what they want when they want. How on earth did I manage to raise two lads into adulthood that are respectful and not act entitled. Oh let me think, that's it! I didn't let them rule the roost, showed them love and limits, let them know they were important but at the same time that the world doesn't revolve round at them and expected them to learn from consequences of their behaviour.

See above. Forcing them to obey because you’re the boss and they’re too little to articulate why they’re not doing exactly what you want is shitty behaviour.

@WaltzingBetty

So if someone much bigger than you decided you should put your shoes back on and you couldn’t articulate why you didn’t want to, and they just lifted you up and plonked you on the muddy ground, you’d be absolutely fine with that?

Right @Pumperthepumper

So you'd have left a toddler unattended and alone in the car rather than allow them to explore the world as they have chosen (barefooted)
Yeah you sound responsible

See above. I wouldn’t punish a child too little to have reasonable cognitive development, no.

She could have made it into a game - see if you can put them on before I get X out of the car! Any of the above.

She's got other kids to look after too! And she will likely have tried these approaches. Sometimes they dont work.

If you carry a child in they learn they can refuse to wear shoes and be carried.

The child needs to learn to do as she is told, even if she does not want to. There will be times when there is no option but to put shoes on and she has to learn that there is a reason shoes need to be worn (stop your feet getting cold/wet).

See above. Forcing them to obey because you’re the boss and they’re too little to articulate why they’re not doing exactly what you want is shitty behaviour.

But the child didn't want to wear shoes! And the CM didn't make her wear shoes.

The child chose to after realising that shoes serve a purpose. The OP does not mention 'forcing'.

If anything the CM did exactly what the child wanted until the child changed her mind

What was the alternative? If your DD point blank refused then forcing the shoes on her feet wouldn’t have been a great idea either.

It’s just a concrete floor you are being unreasonable. Perhaps your daughter might think twice now about not wanting to put her shoes back on.

See above. I wouldn’t punish a child too little to have reasonable cognitive development, no.
In what way is being outside barefoot when you've chosen not to wear shoes a punishment?

You do it your way pumper

I'll stick with mine and my lovely obedient children

I wouldn't expect a nursery to use this type of 'discipline' and therefore I'd say that a childminder shouldn't do it either. If a parent thinks it's appropriate, crack on, but it's not something to do to a child that isn't yours

It wasn't discipline though was it?
Child says 'I don't want them on'
adult says 'it's cold and wet you need them'
child says 'I don't want them'
adult says 'ok fair enough go without'.

Puts child on wet ground and child cries 'it's cold and wet, waaaahhhh'
adult says 'well I did tell you', child says 'I want my shoes on'

Job done 👍🏻

What's with all the forcing and punishing? The child got exactly what she wanted but realised it wasn't the best idea in reality. That's it! Strapping in to a chair she dislikes would have been a punishment with no understanding of why the shoes were needed.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

It could also be taken as she's not getting her own way there Give me an example.

If a child always gets what they wants they will appear to never throw tantrums, refuse to do necessary things etc.

I was guilty of believing my own DS was perfectly behaved. Because at home with only me, he generally got what he wanted, because most of the time, his wishes were simple and reasonable - "please can I choose to watch octonauts after tea", "please can I have an apple for snack", "can we go for a walk around the duck pond instead of the woods". I realised when he was 3-4 and started having play dates that actually he was terrible when he had to yield (sometimes) to what another child wanted. This also coincided with his sister getting old enough not to simply follow his wishes in terms of tv choices and the like.

I've got a friend who is very relaxed about behaviour. She was surprised that when he started preschool they felt her son's behaviour could be quite challenging. I noticed it too when our kids had a playdate..... because in my house, there are rules, and he didnt like them! No you can't jump on the sofa, no, we don't hit. So he played up the whole time - to test what he could and couldn't do.

You believe your friend’s child to be such a psychopath that he was able to manipulate age 2.5? That’s very unusual - is it not more likely that he was too little to understand why he wasn’t allowed to do whatever he wanted? And in that case, you didn’t teach him boundaries, you taught him to be scared of your mood swings - because to him, being happy that he’s jumping on the couch made you angry. He’s not capable of any other thought process at 2.5.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

She could have made it into a game - see if you can put them on before I get X out of the car! Any of the above.

She's got other kids to look after too! And she will likely have tried these approaches. Sometimes they dont work.

If you carry a child in they learn they can refuse to wear shoes and be carried.

The child needs to learn to do as she is told, even if she does not want to. There will be times when there is no option but to put shoes on and she has to learn that there is a reason shoes need to be worn (stop your feet getting cold/wet).

If she has too many children to look after and can’t spend time being aware of the development stages of a 2.5 year old - and therefore has to result to being a bully - the OP should definitely find a new childminder.

Abd how is leaving a toddler unattended locked in a car not punishment? @Pumperthepumper ?

So you believe in social isolation, and leaving toddlers unattended and locked up? Yeah definitely no punishment there!

See above. Forcing them to obey because you’re the boss and they’re too little to articulate why they’re not doing exactly what you want is shitty behaviour
So I must have been a shit mother!!
Fortunately my lads haven't held it against and are pretty great men now!

@WaltzingBetty

See above. Forcing them to obey because you’re the boss and they’re too little to articulate why they’re not doing exactly what you want is shitty behaviour.

But the child didn't want to wear shoes! And the CM didn't make her wear shoes.

The child chose to after realising that shoes serve a purpose. The OP does not mention 'forcing'.

If anything the CM did exactly what the child wanted until the child changed her mind

I suspect if someone did this to an elderly person who was unable to articulate why they didn’t want to (or couldn’t!) put their shoes on, I think the responses would be very different.

Forcing them to obey because you’re the boss and they’re too little to articulate why they’re not doing exactly what you want is shitty behaviour.

2.5 year olds often have unacceptable reasons why they want to do things. Mine wanted to touch a bonfire because "it's pretty and warm". Newsflash: 2.5 year olds are often wrong, unsafe, thoughtless, impulsive, selfish and know a lot less about everything than adults. This is why they are not in charge....

@WaltzingBetty

See above. I wouldn’t punish a child too little to have reasonable cognitive development, no. In what way is being outside barefoot when you've chosen not to wear shoes a punishment?

so she took her out the car and put him on the (wet and muddy) ground in her bare feet and told her basically that's what you get for not putting your shoes on.

She was forced to stand with no shoes on.

It would depend if the elderly person had their full mental faculties but yes, but that's because an elderly adult understands and knows far more about everything than a 2.5 year old.

So just to be clear @Pumperthepumper

If you had a toddler who did not want to wear shoes you'd lock them alone in a car, but you're criticising the childminder for allowing the child to do exactly what she wanted (not wear) shoes, until she changed her mind. Because supporting her choices is bullying and punishing but locking her alone in a car is not.
Have I got that right?

@WaltzingBetty

Abd how is leaving a toddler unattended locked in a car not punishment? *@Pumperthepumper* ?

So you believe in social isolation, and leaving toddlers unattended and locked up? Yeah definitely no punishment there!

When did I say leave her in a locked car?

She wasn't forced pumper. She was given a choice to put the shoes on. She chose not to, so faced the natural consequence of that action which was to stand without them.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

Forcing them to obey because you’re the boss and they’re too little to articulate why they’re not doing exactly what you want is shitty behaviour.

2.5 year olds often have unacceptable reasons why they want to do things. Mine wanted to touch a bonfire because "it's pretty and warm". Newsflash: 2.5 year olds are often wrong, unsafe, thoughtless, impulsive, selfish and know a lot less about everything than adults. This is why they are not in charge....

And did you force their hand into the fire? Or did you reason with them?