To be cross with our childminder?

[ranging]

Name changed.

DD has been going to the same childminder since she was 8 months and she is now 2.5. She absolutely loves it there and she's very kind and friendly, I get lots of crafts home that DD does and they go out and do a lot.

DD is going through a challenging phase, not doing as she's told, very stubborn, sometimes hitting and biting.

When I picked her up on Friday, the childminder said that she had taken her shoes and socks off in the car and was refusing to put them back on, so she took her out the car and put him on the (wet and muddy) ground in her bare feet and told her basically that's what you get for not putting your shoes on. She apparently got upset by this and then finally allowed her to put her shoes back on.

I was a bit taken aback by this, AIBU to tell her I am not happy about this at all? I'm not sure if this is an ok tactic to use with a toddler but I never would and don't want anyone else to treat her like that either.

@JustLyra

Of course not but Christ, letting a toddler out the car in the mud as form of punishment for taking their shoes off, really harsh and I wouldn't be happy with that either.

There could have been glass on the ground or similar sharp objects mixed in the mud and the outcome could have been far worse than wet muddy feet.

@soditall56 As if an experienced and qualified childminder is ever going to let a barefoot child hop out the car onto glass.

I’m amazed some people on this thread use any kind of childcare going by some of the replies. Childcare professionals really do get no respect from some.

So unfair to say the don't get any respect because people have different levels of discipline they are comfortable with.

People parent differently and discipline differently. The main thing to note is that OP isn't comfortable with it so shouldn't be criticised for feeling that way.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind at all. Her feet being momentarily wet and muddy will do absolutely nothing other than teach her that that is the reason you wear socks and shoes! YABU and overreacting- the childminder did the right thing.

I don’t even see it as punishment. My DD was exactly the same. Would refuse to wear shoes/coat etc.

I would explain “even though you don’t want to wear them, it’s raining and your feet will be wet and ouchy without them”.”

DD “no they won’t, I’m NOT wearing shoes”.

Me “fine, stand outside and tell me if it feels nice”.

DD stands outside, 30 seconds later comes back in, puts shoes/coat on.

2/3 year olds have huge egos and they think they know best. Sometimes they have to experience things themselves. I don’t think I’m an excessively strict parent. I mostly pick my battles, but children do need to learn that sometimes grown-ups know best and that sometimes in life we have to do things we don’t like.

If the CM had put her in the buggy, your 2yo wouldn’t see it as a consequence because it’s not linked to the reason she needs to wear shoes. I can guarantee she’d be sat there smugly thinking “well you might have me in my buggy, but I’m still not wearing my shoes!”.

If your child is with the childminder the majority of the week, I actually think you need to work with them and try to follow their advice. If you’re being totally passive or giving in to tantrums at the weekends, you’re giving your toddler some very mixed boundaries and by extension, making the childminders job a lot harder. To be honest, I think if you changed your childminder, she’d probably be relieved!

It seems an OK tactic. Showing her what happens if you don't wear shoes. It wouldn't harm her. My friend drove her 5yo to school naked as he refused to get dressed. She had the clothes in the car and upon arrival said: are you going in naked or are you putting the clothes on? Your choice. Child chose the clothes!
There are too many people around these days who have never been told no or think the world revolves around them and their stampy feet wishes. Don't let your dd be one of them!

I agree that if you change childminder based on this event alone the childminder will probably be happy 😂

It didn't do her any harm, OP, and now she understands why she has to wear shoes. It was a natural consequence of her choices, and not a cruel punishment. It's how children learn.

A moment's discomfort really isn't going to damage your child.

I would be very alarmed that your child’s behaviour is worse with CM ! At a very young age children adapt their behaviour according to who they are with.
My children always saved bad behaviour for home rather than on play dates,nursery etc . The fact CM has mentioned about your child’s difficult behaviour suggests you have a very badly behaved child .

@NotSoLongGoodbye
As an experienced and highly qualified early years professional, I’ve often had to give advice to parents on how to deal with their own children. However, I really don’t appreciate it when parents try to tell me how to do my job.
Your language is patronising and belittling, we don’t need anyone to “have a chat”

If DD doesn’t like the buggy, I assume CM would not only have had to wrestle her in, but also CM and other children would have to had endured your DD’s prolonged tantrum. Do you think that would have been better for everybody, including DD?

@JustLyra

Of course not but Christ, letting a toddler out the car in the mud as form of punishment for taking their shoes off, really harsh and I wouldn't be happy with that either.

There could have been glass on the ground or similar sharp objects mixed in the mud and the outcome could have been far worse than wet muddy feet.

@soditall56 As if an experienced and qualified childminder is ever going to let a barefoot child hop out the car onto glass.

I’m amazed some people on this thread use any kind of childcare going by some of the replies. Childcare professionals really do get no respect from some.

Also worth noting that people who stand in glass dont think "I think il stand on this sharp piece of glass and see what happens" usually happens by accident because they haven't seen it. I talk from experience

Her behaviour is much worse at the childminder's than it is at home

OP, you do realise that if this is true, that will be of concern to childcare providers and teachers and flagged up....

So unfair to say the don't get any respect because people have different levels of discipline they are comfortable with.

People parent differently and discipline differently. The main thing to note is that OP isn't comfortable with it so shouldn't be criticised for feeling that way.

@soditall56 I didn’t say that childcare professionals get no respect because the OP isn’t comfortable.

I said it because of ridiculous suggestions like yours that a qualified, experienced childcare professional might have let a child jump down onto glass. As if, knowing she was letting a barefoot child step down, she wouldn’t have checked.

I think it's fine. I have had this scenario and lifted my child out of the car and lowered him down with a 'are you sure you don't want shoes and socks on?'. At that point he relented and got back into the car and agreed to having socks and shoes. But if he was still refusing I would have put him down on the ground yes.
(that would have then caused me hassle because I would then have to dry off the feet before inevitably putting socks and shoes back on. But well done to the CM for sticking to her guns if that's what she did)

At first I thought I wouldn't like that but after properly thinking I've decided it sounds ok and I recall doing it myself. You say your childminder is great do the act wasn't malicious, spiteful or punishing.

Sounds like she was being practical not mean and I think it's a great sign that she told you about it.

@JustLyra

So unfair to say the don't get any respect because people have different levels of discipline they are comfortable with.

People parent differently and discipline differently. The main thing to note is that OP isn't comfortable with it so shouldn't be criticised for feeling that way.

@soditall56 I didn’t say that childcare professionals get no respect because the OP isn’t comfortable.

I said it because of ridiculous suggestions like yours that a qualified, experienced childcare professional might have let a child jump down onto glass. As if, knowing she was letting a barefoot child step down, she wouldn’t have checked.

Like I've said, no one steps into glass on purpose, usually by accident as it hasnt been seen before the foot has touched it. An injury that can be easily avoided.

But hey, if your comfortable with it, great!

I however am not.

You really need to stop wrapping your child in cotton wool OP. Life is tough and she needs to learn.

Of course being strapped in a buggy can cause discomfort if you don’t want to be in there and are fighting against it. In my line of work working with children with SEN strapping children into a buggy/ wheelchair etc against their will counts as a restraint and can only be done if they are in danger to themselves or others, if a child doesn’t want to wear shoes we would let them go out in bare feet over strapping them into a buggy. To be honest personally if I had the choice of someone bigger than me strapping me into a chair I couldn’t get out of or putting me barefoot on the wet ground I’d go for being barefoot on the ground so to me the childminder putting her briefly on the ground seems kinder than strapping her into a buggy she hates.

Crikey what a non event.

Punishing a toddler by putting them in a buggy wouldn’t work as well as letting the toddler feel the cold ground with her feet though. Because “punishing” toddlers is about as effective as punishing Yorkshire puddings.

CM you need to put your socks and shoes on
Toddler no
Repeat several times with encouragement from CM and toddler escalating the stubbornness.

CM the ground is muddy, see? Do you want your shoes
Toddler OK

Putting her in the buggy wouldn’t have taught her the connection and it is unlikely she has the capacity to understand it as punishment, so you end up with a frustrated child who has learned nowt.

Of interest is the child’s behaviour actually worse at the CM or is it just that it is noticed and not pandered to?

Lol at the classic
my DD is a sensitive child and
DD is going through a challenging phase, not doing as she's told, very stubborn, sometimes hitting and biting.

I think the word you need is PAMPERED not sensitive.

What would you have wanted her to do?
She probably would've had other children with her that she also needs to care for, so seems reasonable and she taught her that she needs socks and shoes on or she would be uncomfortable. Think you're being a bit ott.

The restraining in the pushchair is odd. It doesn’t teach consequences, just a battle of wills on how long they can hold out without understanding why they should choose to do this. I’d be really unhappy if a childminder used this approach as it doesn’t provide any natural teaching whatsoever.

This. The manhandling in a to a pushchair is far worse IMO. Both as the dc won't understand why the pushchair is significant to not wearing her shoes - it's not a natural consequence, and because they've achieved what they wanted, which is getting out of the car without their shoes on -win! If these are the types of consequence you are using and you are distressed about the mildest discomfort- not that 2 seconds in the ground would be that, more of just a realisation that it's nicer with shoes in this instance - i suspect you will have more issues with her behaviour

But hey, if your comfortable with it, great!

I however am not.

So what would you have done?

Yes, but the buggy isn't causing her physical discomfort.

It is. Because she is physically strapped in there against her will for a time period that she has no control over and can’t remove herself from. I guarantee you, thwt to your toddler, being physically strapped in thwt buggy will feel far more punitive than standing barefoot on the ground did.

Buggy = removal of agency

That’s why she hates it

Your ‘consequence’ is punishment. Not consequence.

Childminder’s consequence was a consequence: we walk. The ground is cold and wet. If you don’t wear socks and shoes then your feet are also cold and wet. So that’s why we wear socks and shoes. Nothing punitive about it.

Ahhh diddums.