Page 13 | AIBU to think Eminem is the greatest rapper of all time?

MrsTerryPratchett · 14/05/2021 22:48

@User135644

Rap? Why would MNers listen to that misogynistic crap?

God yes. Baby it's cold outside is a rap tune. And Blurred Lines. And every second song my the Stones and HOLD ON those aren't rap! It's almost like all culture within the patriarchy is sexist and only rap gets singled out. For some reason.

Jillly · 14/05/2021 23:04

I think eminem was of his time and obviously talented even if he did fall back on shock tactics at times.
Love his first couple of albums.
The greatest rapper? No.
Tupac, Biggie, both more talented, Nas, Andre 3000.
There was a study done that measured which artists had the most diverse vocabulary, if I recall wu tang clan and outkast were at the top end.

Ginuwine · 15/05/2021 07:14

@MrsTerryPratchett

Nicely put!

There are some Guns and Roses lyrics that would make some feminists toes curl, but it's more a case of "look at those naughty LA boys". Could be fact, could be fiction, but it's accepted as louche indulged storytelling and treated lightly as such.

With hip hop there's a sense that the person speaking on record is giving their first person, lived narrative as if it's a court deposition. Anything they say therefore is to be held to similar court like standards and judged heavily as if it is the sole contributor to their society's ills.

This is why Eminem was genius, because he said so many clearly outrageous and improbable- to-occur things, and crucially with a sense of humour. This then allowed people to frame his whole output in a "here's an artist playing with a mirror to the world" .

With a fair few of our Afro-American rap legends that was never their starting position. They came out of the blocks stating what they did and what they were going to do, in a very po faced and confrontational way. I love them for it but I can see how they leave themselves open to judgement.

In short - a bit of humour and clever positioning goes a long way.

FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop · 15/05/2021 07:21

Oh yes such a lyrical genius, I especially think these revolting misogynistic lyrics are the best :

Now, look at this lady all in front of me, sexy as can be
Tonight I want a slut, would you be mine?
Heard you was freaky from a friend of mine
Now I hope you don't get mad at me
But I told Nate you was a freak
He said he wants a slut, hope you don't mind
I told him how you like it from behind

I met a bad bitch last night in the D
Let me tell you how I made her leave with me
Conversation and Hennessy

I'm a menace, a dentist, an oral hygienist
Open your mouth for about four or five minutes
Take a little bit of this fluoride rin-inse
Swish, but don't spit it, swallow it and now finish
Yeah!

FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop · 15/05/2021 07:24

And the songs where he talks about beating his girlfriend/wife. And how his mum is to blame for everything.Or the song where he rapped about having a pregnant girlfriend tied in the trunk.

I bow down to his superior talent.

Why do we just accept this shit?

FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop · 15/05/2021 07:28

@bluebluezoo

No, what's good and talented about a guy that glorifies domestic violence and hate against women?

Umm he doesn’t. It may appear that way if you haven’t properly listened though.

Same with the rihanna song about DA. It isn’t to glorify, it highlights the reality.

I love Eminem. I think his rap is very clever- as pointed out on the surface it appears to mean one thing, when on closer listen it doesn’t at all. The music and the samples are great too.

It caught my attention in the way other rap hasn’t. I like odd songs from other artists, but Eminem is the only one I can listen to entire albums over again.

Oh give over, Eminem has loads of songs glorifying DV. Google the lyrics for "Kim" - he actually named it after his ex and mother of his children. Here some lovely lyrics from that song:

Don't make me wake this baby! She don't need to see what I'm 'bout to do!
Quit crying, bitch! Why do you always make me shout at you?!

Love The Way You Lie by Rihanna is different as she's singing about how victims feel tied and tethered to their abusers. Totally different.

Triphazards · 15/05/2021 07:29

Eminem couldn't rap his way out of a paper bag!

Ginuwine · 15/05/2021 07:37

@Triphazards

Eminem couldn't rap his way out of a paper bag!

I could post you 50 or so quotes from the hall of fame of rappers acknowledging Eminem as one of, if not the greatest.

Jay-Z's greatest album was the Blueprint. The only guest artist he allowed on that album? Eminem.

Dr Dre is widely acknowledged as one of the greatest producers of our time. He signed Eminem and shaped his first albums. He also acknowledges his greatness.

Dozens of other (all Afro-American) hit making rappers acknowledge his superior lyrical ability and consider him a peer and friend.

Finally, Eminem came up through the freestyle battle circuit (he even made a handy autobiographical film to show his origin story).

This "forged in the fire" process helped him become one of the most lyrically dextrous MCs to ever record on record.

In short, the paper bag wouldn't defeat him. But strange comment to make about someone so clearly proven in that respect .

FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop · 15/05/2021 07:43

@MrsTerryPratchett I think you'll find most MNers don't listen to those songs either - but Eminem actually named his ex and wrote songs about beating her, in quite vivid detail. I can't imagine in those days where the superfans were going crazy for him, how much hell and harrasment Kim must have gone through

If Kim came on MN she'd be told to involve the police but because Eminem is famous we just say "meh well other people do it"

Bazoo23 · 15/05/2021 07:45

So you try to play the race card
But it blows up in your face hard
Cause you know we don't play that black and white shit

In the words of the great man himself

FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop · 15/05/2021 07:49

I'm actually very disappointed and surprised by this thread. Posters who'd otherwise tell a woman she's being abused if her DH so much tells her she needs a shower, lauding a man who glorifies violence against women. A man who pistol whipped his ex's new boyfriend because he saw them kissing.

Next time a woman comes on to say her DH thumped her I'm going to ask if he's good at his job, a genius in his field, and if loads of other men like him do it because apparently that excuses shitty behaviour

Proudboomer · 15/05/2021 07:53

Tom Macdonald a truly independent artist rapper who doesn’t rap about whores and DV

Mookie81 · 15/05/2021 07:55

@canary1

Just going through those early great albums, The Slim Shady, The Marshall Mathers LP, the Eminem show...and thinking what a genius. I’ve also had some glasses of wine so am rambling. But those brilliant lyrics. Sigh....anyone agree?

I completely agree. Snoop Dogg has been slating him but he wouldn't be if Eminem was black. He is also resentful because Dr Dre started working with Eminem and they blew up, while Snopp has declined and only has any success because of Dr Dre (Snoop decided to stay with Sugg Knight, so backed the wrong horse lol). Biggy and Tupac are great, but a lot of the reason they always get voted the best is because they prematurely died. I think black rappers who don't like Eminem are resentful of his success and insecure over the fact he is better than them so crap on him. I can see how they feel he has encroached on traditionally black music, and I think this stops a lot of people from thinking objectively. I'm mixed race by the way and only speaking for myself, just a disclaimer!

Mookie81 · 15/05/2021 07:57

@HeartShapedBox

Nah, eminem is good, granted, but the GOAT is tupac 💯

Come on. If you prefer him that's fine, but objectively can you really say Tupac is a better writer and how more talent?

Mookie81 · 15/05/2021 08:25

*has

roundtable · 15/05/2021 08:26

A lot of rap I find inconsistent in quality. Much like other genres of music I suppose. But when it's hits the mark, it's amazing!

Might make me a heathen but I'm quite fond of Dizzy Rascal (what happened to him) who hasn't been mentioned yet.

merrymelody · 15/05/2021 08:31

I adore Eminem. Even more after I saw him in concert six years ago. I don't know enough about rap to say if he's the greatest but I think he's amazing!

whenwillthemadnessend · 15/05/2021 08:39

I love his early stuff and listen to it now It's brilliant for running or swimming. Just the right tempo

His lyrics are brilliant. I often thought he would
Be a great president

Some the the misogyny is pretty disgusting however and I won't listen to some songs.

I'm 50 so not the usual demographic

cnversation · 15/05/2021 09:17

I prefer Uncle Murda myself

Ginuwine · 16/05/2021 07:38

@roundtable

A lot of rap I find inconsistent in quality. Much like other genres of music I suppose. But when it's hits the mark, it's amazing!

Might make me a heathen but I'm quite fond of Dizzy Rascal (what happened to him) who hasn't been mentioned yet.

I think he hasn't been mentioned yet because he isn't easily considered a "rap" artist. He raps, but he's not "hip-hop".

Dizzee Rascal is a curious case. He made one of the classic grime albums, was born in the "grime" scene and forged in it, but then eschewed it for a flirtation with pop and dance music that made him a British household name. He's made a few straight up rap tempo tunes too - he's a real musical magpie.

Is he a rapping great? I'd argue his incredible sonic delivery on "Boy In Da Corner" makes him one of the most unique voices to do the MC'ing thing.

He's not a great for me though because he doesn't have a consistent body of work, he hasn't really done it for me. He's now a festival staple, a British musical institution, but he's not someone I think is up there as a "rap" great.

But he will always have one of the most classic British albums, a moment in time he can claim. Not many artists can say that.

Ginuwine · 16/05/2021 07:59

@cnversation

I prefer Uncle Murda myself

His workrate on the mixtape scene is laudable over the last couple of decades

But seriously - one album this year? No chance for this chap to be up there with the current lot let alone the greats

malificent7 · 31/05/2021 01:23

Rap is a fantastically funky genre and the tunes are great.Eminem is a genious but the mysogyny makes me squirm.
I'm the 1st to get down to Gravel Pit by Wu tang Clan tho!

Washimal · 31/05/2021 07:25

Rap? Why would MNers listen to that misogynistic crap?

Your ignorance is showing. There are some amazing female rappers out there as well as male artists who identify as feminists if you care to educate yourself. Don't you consider pop music misogynistic? What about rock music, no misogyny there? Funny how people get upset about misogyny in hip hop but couldn't give two shits about the appalling treatment of women in the music industry as a whole. I wonder why

Hellsmovie · 10/11/2022 21:13

Eminem has been inducted into the rock and roll hall of fame.

Well deserved!!!

VisitingThem · 10/11/2022 21:47

Proudboomer · 15/05/2021 07:53

Tom Macdonald a truly independent artist rapper who doesn’t rap about whores and DV

I can't remember who said it, but to quote some dude on Youtube 'Eminem is the absolute GOAT but he also opened the floodgates to this shit.'.