AIBU to think Eminem is the greatest rapper of all time?

[canary1]

Just going through those early great albums, The Slim Shady, The Marshall Mathers LP, the Eminem show...and thinking what a genius. I’ve also had some glasses of wine so am rambling. But those brilliant lyrics. Sigh....anyone agree?

@bluebluezoo, at least that's an explanation for my shouted, "WHO BUYS THIS?"

I shout too.
Ironic that the label for something that started off as really intricate wordplay now gets applied to Drake.
Speak up! Stop mumbling!
As for the misogyny and violence, Large Professor( from Main Source) is really good on the marketing of Hip Hop and who was widely promoted. It was political ( Fear of a Black Planet ), poetic ( Tribe) upbeat ( De La Soul) and sometimes violent but speaking about a lived reality ( Nas, Mobb Deep). Eminem falls into this I think. It’s problematic but wasn’t in the vein of wave a bit of money around, diss another rapper, have some women dance around you barely dressed.
Biggie was an entertainer but not a great rapper. Same with Tupac, Jay Z etc. They were marketed and were caricatures to some extent. Lots had a problem with it at the time.
The girls in bikinis came with some of the names mentioned here.
We were playing Roxanne Shante on YouTube the other day and my son asked why women in ‘ hip hop ‘ ( I really don’t want to call it that) now all wear bikinis. I didn’t know what to say really.
Now I’m going to leave because I’m too old to be arguing about the greatest rapper on the Internet !

Eminem has the ability to rhyme words in a way that no one has ever come close to doing! There's a clip on YouTube of him explaining how he can rhyme orange and it blows my mind every time I watch it

A rap aficionado that can't name many Tupac songs and the Biggie ones you highlight are the pop chart types way after his grimy NY rap days?
Both 'Pac and Big are streets ahead of Eminem for their depth and lyrical content and, as someone who was personally on the rap circuit as a supporting act many moons ago, I also highly rate a large range of artists and groups like Talib, The Roots, Mos Def, LL Cool J, Da Brat, Rah Digga, Ras Kas, Keith Murray, Redman, Knaan, Saian Supa Crew and on and on.

@Lolly34h

Eminem has the ability to rhyme words in a way that no one has ever come close to doing! There's a clip on YouTube of him explaining how he can rhyme orange and it blows my mind every time I watch it

He can only rhyme Orange cos he says orange with an American accent. He’d have a far harder time doing that in My welsh accent.

Eminem is a genius. However Nas, Mobb Deep, Immortal Technique... it's just not the same league!

Behave yerself. Chuck D, innit.

@bluebluezoo

Thank goodness. I thought I was missing something

I once read some research that many people aren’t actually “musical” and don’t enjoy music for it’s own sake, for example they may be tone deaf and can’t actually distinguish good singing from bad..

They either buy what is popular so they appear trendy, or stuff they like the lyrics of, or a certain genre that matches their lifestyle, or something that has a bpm that appeals, or it’s inoffensive background noise...

Rarely because it’s good music that they like on all levels, tune, lyrics etc.

Explained a lot...

SMUG POST OF THE YEAR

Blackberrycream Very much agree with you on Nas' Illmatic - it's been twenty-odd years since it was rated best rap album and it still kicks ass.

@Shileldmaiden01
He was a teenager too! Astounding.

SMUG POST OF THE YEAR

I assume you're a Drake fan then! Explain yourself

One word: Nas.
Two words: Talib Kweli.

No

He is very good

Kanye is a musical genius. He is flawed as a person but many very talented people are

I like Snoop Dogg and Rakim

'stan' with dido rocks it for me

@FastFood

One word: Nas. Two words: Talib Kweli.

I have a thing against Talib Kweli in these kind of discussions - also see Yassin Bey aka Mos Def. Both for me are footnotes in hip-hop history despite declaring themselves as self-proclaimed saviours of the "real" hip hop (aka a chamber music copied approach to the boom bap 90s sound). .

Every so often you get "savour" figures in hip hop, aka people who just want to preserve that 90s sound in aspic.

Jeru the Damaja was one. Talib and Mos Def were also. Jay Electronica is the latest.

All undeniably talented, but all retro to me in a way that doesn't sit well with a music that should be moving forward.

They are reupholsterers. The hip hop equivalent of what Greta Van Fleet is in today's rock music. A good listen, definitely talented, but if I missed Led Zeppelin that much I can just listen to Led Zeppelin..

@bluebluezoo

Whenever I'm mindlessly listening to the radio and feel irritated for no reason, I come to and realise some tone deaf DJ has played Drake. If anyone can explain what's good about him I'd love to know. Awful, bland, tuneless, MOR nonsense to me

Oh god yes. whingy man singing flat, set to one of the preformatted settings on a 70’s electonic keyboard. Really sets my teeth on edge.

Drake has done something only a few other rappers have ever managed in history. He's up there with Kanye and Jay for this -

• He has managed to dominate the sound of a whole decade: and stay at the top in a game that is ruthless in competition.

His formula is simple but clever - he isn't afraid to be vulnerable with a curated melancholy that is of our times. He is mysteriously available yet not, he doesn't give many interviews but everyone feels like they know him.

He opens up in a very self conscious typical socialmedia way that gives him large male and female audiences who also practically live on those platforms. He is eminently quotable and has a clear recognisable voice.

He can "sing" hooks and has great producers. He's a musical and cultural magpie and loves to put on different styles like he's releasing a fashion line, above all he knows how to ride different personas and beats. In an era where how you meme and social media distribute your work is as important as the music you make, Drake just gets it.

Quite simply he's the Madonna of this rap game. May not be the best singer or musician but you can't look away, and he wins on visuals, marketing, compelling and willing you to listen to his ear candy. The whole package.

Drake is a pop star. Mainstream success and merit sometimes cross over but it’s a bit daft to use it as some kind of measure of quality. Lots of people eat Mcdonalds. McDonalds are good at what they do. It’s not great though.
If you can listen to Drake, Kanye West etc then listen to Public Enemy, Nas , Tribe and think they are comparable, you are not listening.

This is all personal taste, isn't it? Unless you're talking about facts like album sales, charts or whatever, then all the breaking down of stuff is just - like beauty - 'in the ear of the listener'.

To me, Eminem isn't the best, though I'm not sure who I think is. When I used to listen to rap, I can't say I had a favourite but enjoyed a lot of songs and some of the rappers. Can't remember most of them but in no particular order:

MC Lyte (Cold rock a party remix, Keep on keep keeping on), Da Brat, Foxy Brown, The lady of rage, Trina, Rah digga,

Bone thugs n Harmony (Crossroads),

Tupac (A lot of songs, can't name them all but 'Dear Mama' and 'I ain't mad atcha' are quite touching).

Snoop Dogg, Naughty by nature, Salt n Pepa, Missy Elliot,

Dr Dre (California love...with tupac), Warren G, Master P, Easy E, Biggie (Notorious BIG, Big Poppa), Nas, Nate Dogg,

Eminem (cleaning out my closet album)

Eve, DMX, Ja rule, Big pun, Fat Joe, Jay Z,

Puff daddy (Now P.Diddy), Mase, Loon, Camron (all "softcore" rappers but enjoyed most of their songs).

@Blackberrycream

Drake is a pop star. Mainstream success and merit sometimes cross over but it’s a bit daft to use it as some kind of measure of quality. Lots of people eat Mcdonalds. McDonalds are good at what they do. It’s not great though. If you can listen to Drake, Kanye West etc then listen to Public Enemy, Nas , Tribe and think they are comparable, you are not listening.

I'll listen to stuff Let Me Clear My Throat and it isn't high brow and it is junk, like McDonalds, but it's catchy and has a great hook and all that. Drake is just blah. I don't get it. He's not McDonalds, I understand McDonalds. He's overcooked Brussel Sprouts with no butter or bacon.

I listen to a very eclectic selection of music and can normally at least understand why people like things, even if it's not my taste. But Drake is beyond me. I don't suppose he cares rolling around on a bed made of Grammys but it's exactly what I'd expect when someone says 'Canadian rapper'!

[quote Shopliftersoftheworldunite]@aintnothinbutagstring the kids could be 25 years old you muppet. Calm down.[/quote]
Thank you 🙂

Not 25 but 16+ and I didn’t put on any that were anything to do with killing his wife.

Agree 💯%

@Shieldmaiden01

A rap aficionado that can't name many Tupac songs and the Biggie ones you highlight are the pop chart types way after his grimy NY rap days? Both 'Pac and Big are streets ahead of Eminem for their depth and lyrical content and, as someone who was personally on the rap circuit as a supporting act many moons ago, I also highly rate a large range of artists and groups like Talib, The Roots, Mos Def, LL Cool J, Da Brat, Rah Digga, Ras Kas, Keith Murray, Redman, Knaan, Saian Supa Crew and on and on.

I could name plenty of Pac songs, Could bore you and everyone else with two dozen off the top of my head for starters.

That wasn't my point though - I was saying the ones I named because they're the only ones I bother playing any more. And those are most likely a similar list to others also in terms of ranked popularity.

It's just my opinion (as is all of this thread!) that Pac's discography doesn't stack up to his image.

As for Biggie, I still love "Party and Bullshit" and as a listener I go right back to when he started. I just don't do the whole "his underground is better" schtick - some of his best songs were his hit songs, and he rode with Puffy so he was hardly going to be grimy for long! Part of what made him great was that combo of the Bad Boy sonic polish applied to his street smart rhymes..

I just think track-for-track he exceeds 2Pac for longevity and "oh I'll listen to that it's been a while". I don't go out of my way to listen to any Pac.

Just my views!

Top 5 certainly.

@Blackberrycream

Drake is a pop star. Mainstream success and merit sometimes cross over but it’s a bit daft to use it as some kind of measure of quality. Lots of people eat Mcdonalds. McDonalds are good at what they do. It’s not great though. If you can listen to Drake, Kanye West etc then listen to Public Enemy, Nas , Tribe and think they are comparable, you are not listening.

I didn't praise Drake only because of his mainstream appeal. I do however enjoy his music in the same way I do occasionally enjoy a McDonalds - both have a formula that when you want it, you feel compelled to have it so to speak.

I was trying to describe why I felt it works. He has carefully curated a persona and a neat variety of delivery (in some songs he switches from smooth crooning to a kind of raspy rap vocal) but it's his beat choices which I also like.

"Controlla" was so much fun to dance to when it came out, again see "One Dance". Sure you could dance to some Vybz Karte or Popcaan if you wanted actual real dancehall, just as you could have a Honest Burger or a wagyu premium burger from some indie place if you really wanted that..

...but isn't it fun sometimes to consume the guilty pleasure when it's targeted in that way to directly hit the spot?

I just am fine with the ephemeral sometimes. It's often Nas with these kind of threads, it's Public Enemy, it's Talib Kweli, but when would I throw any of that stuff on the stereo on an average weekday they're all great acts but I sometimes, no often, choose music to make me feel good or happy.

Drake does that. He's not a hip hop artist to be savoured or respected like a Q-Tip or a Chuck D etc. But we're not back in 88 or 92 any more!

Maybe he's more the LL Cool J of our times. Nothing wrong with that in my book.

@MrsTerryPratchett
I love the damning overcooked Brussels sprouts with no bacon or butter comment.
I feel like I have to defend Canadian rappers though!
Choclair, K os, Saukrates, Large Professor ( Main Source) - all Canadian.
Da Grassroots made one album but it was great and a classic. One of them was my friend’s little brother. They were all quiet teenagers and we were really shocked ‘ You made that ! ‘
Anyway, this has been a fun discussion.
Drake is fine for anyone that likes it. Hip hop/ Rapper become meaningless as labels though when it’s applied to that.
The Source have all the names mentioned on their list. Rakim then Nas top 2 which seems fair.