AIBU to think Eminem is the greatest rapper of all time?

[canary1]

Just going through those early great albums, The Slim Shady, The Marshall Mathers LP, the Eminem show...and thinking what a genius. I’ve also had some glasses of wine so am rambling. But those brilliant lyrics. Sigh....anyone agree?

Roots Manuva I meant.
Although The Roots should be on here too. Talia Kwaki too.
Jay Z, Tupac etc should not!
Talent speaks so Eminem was not disadvantaged for being white..He had talent and that was recognised.

Talib Kwali , my spell check is running riot.

@Griefmonster

I am utterly despairing that at least 2 PPs only mentioned Missy as an "underrated" rapper. Underrated by WHOM?! Any sensible person knows she is an absolute legend. Creativity, lyricism and delivery off the scale. And going STRONG as ever. There are many many male rappers that I enjoy listening to but only Missy makes me want to weep with intense joy and astonishment.

She makes me think I can dance.

Readers, I cannot dance.

Christ this is the most mn thread I have read in a while. Clearly Tupac is GOAT. Not even close.

Random fact - Missy’s “Lose Control” was the first track I was asked to turn down by a neighbor. I was 46 at the time!

@FilthyforFirth

Christ this is the most mn thread I have read in a while. Clearly Tupac is GOAT. Not even close.

Can I ask please @FilthyforFirth why Tupac is the GOAT? I definitely think there are other rappers greater than Eminem but why Pax?

@PRsecrets

Eminem was undeniably talented in his early days- especially with free styling. The only other freestyler I thought was better than him was Jin (a Chinese American rapper who would have been huge had he not become a born again Christian after his first album).

But if we had to name one GOAT- a rapper who made the biggest impact on the industry, while being lyrically talented, then that’s probably Tupac.

Best commercial rapper (lyrics and flow good but not groundbreaking, but tied to amazing beats so commercially sensational) for me is early Kanye.

British rappers-wise its Kano for me. His early work still blows me away.

@PRsecrets

Great to see a mention of Jin! I don't think Jim's failure to succeed was turning Christian. His failure was due to his record label Ruff Ryders not having a bloody clue of how to market, advise and produce him. His hit single and video "Learn Chinese" was an awkward mashup of Chinese stereotypes with typical gangsta posturing. The whole album was horribly awkward and inauthentic. I mean, Ruff Ryders even sent out fortune cookies to magazines with the album release date! Imagine that today. He never was able to translate that freestyle energy into good recorded work.

Re Tupac changing the industry - again I'm not sure he did. I think he was the most popular worldwide icon for the "gangsta" rap that dominated mid 90s airwaves. He was the pretty face of that stuff after prison.

But in the early 90s it was the emergence of Wu Tang and their scattergun "industry within an industry" approach, their dense slang and Mafia aliases, that was the most influential. In 1996 when Tupac was at his most popular and famous, every rapper worth his salts wanted to sound like Raekwon of Wu-Tang. Biggie and his "Frank White" persona, Jay-Z's mafioso pretensions.. I'd argue Wu did more to change rap that decade.

And similarly Kanye has been way more influential (his first three albums shaped the sound of the 2000s, then 808s and Heartbreak birthing a whole industry of 2010s emo clones). Lil Wayne is up there too for pure influence and game changing ability.

I wouldn't go as far to say Kanye was the best commercial rapper ever. I think his "big brother" and the man who found him might have something to say about that. When you've had as many no 1 albums as the Beatles, been the first to take the sound to headlining global festivals, been a worldwide hit single maker for 27 years... like him or loathe him Jay-Z is the commercial GOAT.

I think he is best described as a spoken word poet who is also musical. His use of language in his early work is so clever.

[quote PRsecrets]@Ginuwine I agree with your whole post - you’ve changed my mind

Actually after I posted on here I had a heated discussion with my husband about Jay Z v Kanye and he thought it was blasphemous of me to even suggest Kanye is a better commercial rapper than Jay Z - like saying an apprentice better than their teacher. I think I’m biased by the fact that I think Jay Z is overrated, but it’s true, commercially he’s more successful than Kanye.

I’ll have to scrub up on my rap history knowledge in terms of the Wu Tang clan - your post was super informative.

And it’s true, Jin was marketed terribly.[/quote]

Your post got me all inspired @PRsecrets so thank you first!

I think I was only saying Jay-Z was better than Kanye in the commercial and longevity sense - but when it comes to raw musical talent, game changing albums that influenced a generation, then Kanye as apprentice has far exceeded his master's influence by a matter of light years. 808s and Heartbreak has birthed an entire generation of rappers, and was the foundation of Drake's whole career. Jay-Z had many self appointed rivals but few imitators.

So in short I think you're right about Kanye being more of a "great" overall.

Re Wu Tang, they were a sprawling messy bunch of artists of course with varying quality control of output. But for me the year Zero for every kind of drug rap from Clipse to modern day drill can be traced back to one solo Wu Tang album.

"Only Built 4 Cuban Linx" by Raekwon (fest Ghostface Killah) created that whole Mafioso drug kingpin narrative rap genre that has basically been the default setting for a lot of rappers for 2 decades now. The street observations and detailed narrative storytelling were cinematic. Well worth a listen.

But in the early 90s it was the emergence of Wu Tang and their scattergun "industry within an industry" approach, their dense slang and Mafia aliases, that was the most influential. In 1996 when Tupac was at his most popular and famous, every rapper worth his salts wanted to sound like Raekwon of Wu-Tang. Biggie and his "Frank White" persona, Jay-Z's mafioso pretensions.. I'd argue Wu did more to change rap that decade.

And similarly Kanye has been way more influential (his first three albums shaped the sound of the 2000s, then 808s and Heartbreak birthing a whole industry of 2010s emo clones). Lil Wayne is up there too for pure influence and game changing ability.

👍

If TLDR then for me:

Jay-Z is your rapper's rapper. He's the one you'd show an alien what rap is all about.

Kanye? He's an artist.

Even if not as commercially successful Kanye opened up hip hop to a load of people that wouldn't listen to jay-z

Great you're posting itt ginuwine cos it means I don't have to

This thread seems to be a bit confused. Mainstream success doesn’t make you a great rapper. Lots of people love a pretend gangster....it sells to wider audiences.
There has been no mention of Q tip for gods sake.
Nas, Illmatic was a game changer. It hasn’t dated. His later stuff has but he made Illmatic.
Neither have the Tribe albums.
Eminem was talented.

Interesting point, I was actually listening to some mid 90s rap the other day and thinking how pedestrian it was.

Eminem, definitely took things to another level.

808s and Heartbreak has birthed an entire generation of rappers, and was the foundation of Drake's whole career.

Whenever I'm mindlessly listening to the radio and feel irritated for no reason, I come to and realise some tone deaf DJ has played Drake. If anyone can explain what's good about him I'd love to know. Awful, bland, tuneless, MOR nonsense to me.

Whenever I'm mindlessly listening to the radio and feel irritated for no reason, I come to and realise some tone deaf DJ has played Drake. If anyone can explain what's good about him I'd love to know. Awful, bland, tuneless, MOR nonsense to me

Oh god yes. whingy man singing flat, set to one of the preformatted settings on a 70’s electonic keyboard. Really sets my teeth on edge.

I don't listen to that sort of "music" nor will I let my children listen to such filth.

After all, guns don't kill people, rappers do.

You’re not wrong!
Drake is awful.

Thank goodness. I thought I was missing something.

I don't know about the best of all time! But I think that technically on Rap God he did manage to rap the greatest number of words in like one minute ever on rap song?!
I've worded that very clumsily, clearly no great rapper here...

Thank goodness. I thought I was missing something

I once read some research that many people aren’t actually “musical” and don’t enjoy music for it’s own sake, for example they may be tone deaf and can’t actually distinguish good singing from bad..

They either buy what is popular so they appear trendy, or stuff they like the lyrics of, or a certain genre that matches their lifestyle, or something that has a bpm that appeals, or it’s inoffensive background noise...

Rarely because it’s good music that they like on all levels, tune, lyrics etc.

Explained a lot...

Is this a joke? That revolting misogynist? But because he's white, apparently he's a genius? FFS

99.999% of male rappers have misogynistic lyrics in their repertoire. They're all raving sexists. At least they were when I was growing up and my naive internalised misogyny teenage brain loved all that bullshit! If I hear any of it on the radio now I actively wince. Not a lot better nowadays either.