Moral Dilemma

[freerunner75]

My partner and I have been together 12 years. Both married previously, my marriage ended horrifically, my husband blew a tonne of my savings and left me in £25k debt. My partners marriage was similar, his ex left with an extremely large settlement.

We moved in together to a rented place with a view to buying something together. His marital home was sold to settle the divorce agreement, but he had one other property in his name at the time which he kept and rented out. The house we now live in - was bought at an extremely low rate from family. I had no say in this and was not given the option to be a part of it as he classes it as his 'inheritance' and is protective over the equity given what happened with his divorce. I pay half towards the bills and we have both designed and improved the house since we have been here - i have paid for only soft furnishings and a few bits of furniture as I earn a lot less than him and most of my money goes towards the bills and my kids. The house we live in has tripled in value since we have been here and made improvements.

So, we are not married, no mortgage together, no life insurance for each other, nothing. Together 12 years.

The whole lack of financial security is a big issue to me and has caused us endless arguments over the years. But he won't budge. Recently we had a huge bust up and I was looking into my options but they are few given my current situation and budget limitations.

Am willing to take a bashing on this - however am I being unreasonable to request for him to set aside some money for me in case our relationship does break down irretrievably so that I have a safety net? I was thinking perhaps £1000 per year for every year we have lived together - signed and agreed by both and by a solicitor so we both know where we stand?

I am currently earning more than I have for a while and am starting to be able to save again - but my biggest concern is that if we do finish.. i am out on the streets with nothing to my name despite contributing for years... yet he is sitting pretty. I know it sounds bloody awful, but it would take a lot of stress off me and our relationship and I don't think I am being unreasonable.

But I am expecting to be told that I am..... thoughts please.

No just adding it in, as some countries don’t find her concept unreasonable. Maybe in the future laws will change.

You either marry and you are protected by law.

Or, you get on and earn as much as you can to purchase a place you can rent out. This will grow as an asset, it's somewhere you can go if things fail. And you don't have to share it as you are not married.

Legally he doesn't have to share a bean with you. But, neither do you with him. Use this to your advantage if he won't marry you to secure your future.

If he moans you are retraining, or working longer hours, just explain your dilemma. Say you need this safety for your peace of mind as he needs his.

I understand his reluctance to marry again considering he was taken to the cleaners. But this shouldn't stop you making the best of what you have for you.

@fallfallfall

In some countries you would be considered in a common law relationship and indeed after that length of time and shared life together entitled to more. I suspect a SHL might be able to get more than nothing for you but the costs might be more than the benefits, especially if your aiming for 12K vs 1.2M.

Not a chance. There's no common law in England. And these 'shit hot lawyers' cost a lot of money. The OP did everything of her own volition. He never misled her.

@fallfallfall

No just adding it in, as some countries don’t find her concept unreasonable. Maybe in the future laws will change.

I hope not and plenty won't support that. Why should the state nanny adults who don't take responsibility for their poor financial decisions. Fuck that.

I don’t understand what the other things you pay for are either but it’s a frustratingly vague drip feed.

Your joint pot hasn’t seemed to have changed since 2019 when it was your £600 plus his £500 =£1100 for bills excluding mortgage. You keep listing you kids as something else that is imbalanced that you have to pay for. They aren’t his kids and you say he pays for his. That should be off the table as 1) they are adults and can be in full time/part time/seasonal employment 2) It’s not part of the shared out goings.

If you were renting and painted/decorated a room that added value to the property, you wouldn’t be in for any financial benefit other than living in a property to your taste. Cooking, cleaning etc you would have to do if you lived alone/with the kids too (surely they help out a bit here too?).

What are the joint extras you are talking about? Social things? Emergency situations not regarding the house?

We all have things that crop up and suddenly extra comes out, something breaks, extra bill, vet bills, glasses, dental work, hair cut, wedding, hole in your well worn favourite shoes etc. Is this what you mean?

OP even if you were married, I would not think it moral of you to feel entitled to his house, but anyway you aren't and when you realised that was not going to happen you did not have to stay. You made the choice to.

How is £600 not covering all the bills? Are food bills included in that? If so £600 for all household bills and food for an adult and 2 older/ adult children is a bargain by anyone's judgement.

As far as I am concerned we were entering a joint partnership on relatively equal terms with a view to getting a mortgage together, struggling together and building a future together. That hasn’t happened... not through my choice either.. marriage hasn’t happened.. again not through my choice.

Given in your OP you indicate that he was quite explicit that he did not want to be in a situation where he was sharing his wealth with his life partner again, why did you think this? This was your choice. You agreed to move into a house that you were not invited to be on the mortgage for. You agreed to buy soft furnishings and pay for other commodities that would not build wealth for you.

If you want to build savings, you need to chose to do this and you need to stand firm on what you’re prepared to spend/do elsewhere to ensure this happens. These are your choices.

You complain at one point that it’s not fair that if you had married you’d have a claim on his wealth but since you’re not married you don’t. But it seems clear this is exactly why he hasn’t married you. He isn’t prepared to share that with you when you outside of his relationship with you. That’s not particularly unreasonable of him. You need to stop blaming him for your choice to take what he offered without putting your need for financial security exactly where he put his.

Good luck Saving and moving on OP 🌸

Agree with others: he has learned from his previous experience and you haven’t.

I don't think he owes you £12k BUT I do think you are right to think about the future if things don't turn out.

How many kids do you have - how many does he have? Do you share any?

You say you pay 75% of bills. Why is that? It seems high if you are a lower earner. Maybe if you are concerned about future living then you should look at getting a deposit together for a BTL property so you too are on the property ladder - or have some other form of significant savings. Maybe this comes from equlling out the house hold bills a bit?

You complain at one point that it’s not fair that if you had married you’d have a claim on his wealth but since you’re not married you don’t. But it seems clear this is exactly why he hasn’t married you. He isn’t prepared to share that with you when you outside of his relationship with you. That’s not particularly unreasonable of him.

Yes, @BoomBoomsCousin has it. And if the tables were turned, many here would recommend you did the same. There are quite a few questions that have been repeatedly asked and you gave avoided, particularly to do with whether your children contribute to the household or not or even pay for some of their own things that in the past you paid for. This makes it look like you don’t want to talk about it because it would show you have less financial commitments than you are making out. This might not be the case at all but you can’t get mad at posters not knowing everything if you don’t give much away.

But what it does mean, and hopefully the most important outcome of this thread, is that there is more that you are able to save to get your own foot on the property ladder and provide yourself with a safety net.

I don't understand why you don't pay 50/50 of the household bills ?
You should pay for your children
He should pay for his children
He made it clear that the property remains his & I assume would pass to his children

Legally you are both single
So you have no entitlement to his property or money, pension, savings & the same for him

Do you have a pension or savings ?

So the money you used to pay on rent before you moved in with him...where is that going?

You entered this relationship with certain future in mind, but it sounds like everything is on your partner's terms. That's what you should focus on changing. It sounds like he has some serious trust issues after his divorce. Did anything happen between you? Is this a happy relationship? Did you discuss marriage at any point after moving in?
I don't think putting money aside for you is a solution as it creates even more distrust. You need to think what you want from this relationship and what you're willing to give up. And if you stay in the same position as you are now just be straight about your finances. Tell him you need to start saving to secure your future. If it means you contribute less to the house cost I think he should understand - he loves you so he should want you to be safe in case anything happens to him. He's protecting his assets so he should at least enable you to get some assets of your own.

You're not an ungrateful freeloader.

But you cannot expect the benefits of a legal contract when you have not entered that contract.

You decided to live with him on his terms. You need to own that choice. And if you re going to leave him, it has to be from a position of what you have as an unmarried person. Which is what you earn and what you own.

We'd all like a time machine to go back and put right our mistakes. You may well things that a number if the steps towards surrendering your financial independence are things you would like to change.

But you can't do that. You need to find a way to go forwards from the situation your choices have led to.

You said you can now afford to save some money, that's good. Have you worked out what you need in order to be able to leave, if that is what you choose next? How much for a rental deposit? What do rents cost in the places you'd like to live?

Even when it seems daunting, starting to plan gives you back some control. And breaking down what you need to do, and starting to do it will make it less daunting.

@neveradullmoment99

Oh yes and stop paying 75% of the outgoings. He is definitely taking the piss.

So if you had a partner with two adult children who weren’t yours, would you be taking the piss if you paid the mortgage, council tax etc, while he paid for 75% of the utilities and food?

How much would you need to reduce his contribution by so you weren’t taking the piss?

@FrangipaniBlue

he pays his mortgage and we split the bills with me paying 75% and him 25%

Why on earth would you agree to this????

I can understand him wanting to pay the mortgage himself so that it is his house if it is part of an inheritance arrangement, but you should have been splitting the "living costs" 50:50 and using some of your money to build your own safety net!

If you lived with a partner and their two adult children would you only charge them 50% of utilities and food, despite them ‘causing’ 75% of the cost?

How much are you earning if the 600 pounds plus the other mysterious joint expenses you are paying for means that you have nothing left to save at the end of the month?

@freerunner75 since 2017 you have asked a few questions on MN about finances and the blended family where posters told you your DP doesn’t see your situation the same way you do. Please stop considering yourself as if this relationship is a marriage, please change what you are responsible for paying into the household pot (if you can’t afford to save as well as ‘joint interests’ then saving is more important) and please understand what your DP has been crystal clear on all along - he will not financially support you at all. So start thinking very very clearly yourself about who benefits for what you pay for. If the household bills are too high because he watches Sky with all the bells & whistles, say you’d choose not to pay for that etc.

You’ve just got this vision of him as supportive partner and head of the family, but he’s consistently disappointed you on being generous financially despite his huge earnings compared to you, and doesn’t see his role or the relationship in the same way.

Protect yourself.

Did he take legal advice before buying the house at an ‘extremely low rate’ from family? It could cause problems down the line.

As12 years has passed, time to review your financial contributions and plans. If you want the security of property , factor in saving for a deposit for a buy to let, factor in your pension. Make a proper financial plan for yourself now that you are earning more and your children are older and crack on. Let go of the resentment because it’s clouding your judgement.

If you'd been on your own for the last 12 years, what financial position would be in now? What has been the impact of this relationship?

OP I don't think your updated posts are helping you. I don't think you are a freeloader but i don't think you realise that the deal you have currently IS (more than) fair.

You keep coming back to the idea that you once talked about getting a joint mortgage and this never happened. But you've also said that for the last 8 years - since he inherited his house - he has been clear this is off the table. You've had 8 years to save a nest egg, or 8 years to decide you don't want to be with someone if you can't have a joint mortgage.

Many single parents live on £20k (what you said you earned two years ago) and have to pay rent out that. You keep saying that you have had other expenses on top of bills and food (after your debts were paid) - on £20k your take home pay would have been around £1500 a month. Two years ago you said you contributed 600 a month and your DP £500 a month, which would leave you with £900. In this thread you've said you pay 75% and your DP pays 25% (which isn't unfair seeing as there are 3 of you). 75% of £110 is £825 which still leaves you £675 a month.

Whether its £900 or £675 a month that you have left after rent (which you're not paying), bills and essential food are paid for, this is a HUGE amount for someone on £20k. You've said you have all these other expenses but I can't imagine what ESSENTIAL expenses they could be that would amount to at least £600 a month. Certainly they arent things that most single parents on £20k are spending money on.

As I said earlier you could have chosen to put £250 a month in savings and had £24k now and still have had between £375 and £650 a month for non-essentials, which is still significantly more than most single parents on that income have. You chose not to. It is you who has chosen to spend your money on other things and not have a nest egg. Stop blaming your DP and expecting him to sort this in case you leave him.

MN is so odd, for the sake of a piece of paper (marriage certificate) this woman is being treated as if she’s a grassy lodger, if this post was about her DH everyone would be demanding she’s put on the deeds.
Does everyone have to be married to be treated equally in a relationship 🤷🏼‍♀️

*graspy not grassy