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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Moral Dilemma

425 replies

freerunner75 · 08/05/2021 15:56

My partner and I have been together 12 years. Both married previously, my marriage ended horrifically, my husband blew a tonne of my savings and left me in £25k debt. My partners marriage was similar, his ex left with an extremely large settlement.

We moved in together to a rented place with a view to buying something together. His marital home was sold to settle the divorce agreement, but he had one other property in his name at the time which he kept and rented out. The house we now live in - was bought at an extremely low rate from family. I had no say in this and was not given the option to be a part of it as he classes it as his 'inheritance' and is protective over the equity given what happened with his divorce. I pay half towards the bills and we have both designed and improved the house since we have been here - i have paid for only soft furnishings and a few bits of furniture as I earn a lot less than him and most of my money goes towards the bills and my kids. The house we live in has tripled in value since we have been here and made improvements.

So, we are not married, no mortgage together, no life insurance for each other, nothing. Together 12 years.

The whole lack of financial security is a big issue to me and has caused us endless arguments over the years. But he won't budge. Recently we had a huge bust up and I was looking into my options but they are few given my current situation and budget limitations.

Am willing to take a bashing on this - however am I being unreasonable to request for him to set aside some money for me in case our relationship does break down irretrievably so that I have a safety net? I was thinking perhaps £1000 per year for every year we have lived together - signed and agreed by both and by a solicitor so we both know where we stand?

I am currently earning more than I have for a while and am starting to be able to save again - but my biggest concern is that if we do finish.. i am out on the streets with nothing to my name despite contributing for years... yet he is sitting pretty. I know it sounds bloody awful, but it would take a lot of stress off me and our relationship and I don't think I am being unreasonable.

But I am expecting to be told that I am..... thoughts please.

OP posts:
agreatmistake · 09/05/2021 08:55

@HerMammy

MN is so odd, for the sake of a piece of paper (marriage certificate) this woman is being treated as if she’s a grassy lodger, if this post was about her DH everyone would be demanding she’s put on the deeds. Does everyone have to be married to be treated equally in a relationship 🤷🏼‍♀️
Yes, because marriage is a legal contract.

If both parties do not sign up, they cannot be bound by it, or be expected to behave as if they were.

The OP's OH made clear he didn't want to sign up.

WildfirePonie · 09/05/2021 09:00

Cut your losses and move out.

Is that possible?

NoSquirrels · 09/05/2021 09:04

@HerMammy

MN is so odd, for the sake of a piece of paper (marriage certificate) this woman is being treated as if she’s a grassy lodger, if this post was about her DH everyone would be demanding she’s put on the deeds. Does everyone have to be married to be treated equally in a relationship 🤷🏼‍♀️
Does everyone have to be married to be treated equally in a relationship? - ideally not, no, if you’re talking about emotionally, domestically, respect etc. But if you are talking about being entitled to financial compensation in the event of a long-term relationship breakdown then yes, yes you do need to be married. Because that’s the law.

There seems to be absolutely loads wrong with the OP’s set-up to me, but it’s not “unfair” because she’s been aware of the situation all along.

ThatIsMyPotato · 09/05/2021 09:05

I don't think he sees the relationship the same way as you. You wanted to get married he doesn't.

ThatIsMyPotato · 09/05/2021 09:06

@HerMammy

MN is so odd, for the sake of a piece of paper (marriage certificate) this woman is being treated as if she’s a grassy lodger, if this post was about her DH everyone would be demanding she’s put on the deeds. Does everyone have to be married to be treated equally in a relationship 🤷🏼‍♀️
Because that is the point of marriage. Her partner has made clear he doesn't want to get married and the house is his etc, OP has decided to continue the relationship knowing this for years.
Cocomarine · 09/05/2021 09:21

@WildfirePonie

Cut your losses and move out.

Is that possible?

@WildfirePonie what losses though? She’d be cutting her gains 🤷🏻‍♀️
BertramLacey · 09/05/2021 09:48

Agree with others: he has learned from his previous experience and you haven’t.

He's clearly been stung by previous experience but he's basically just learned not to trust anyone again, ever. It means he won't fully commit to a relationship. He has at least been up front about this, but I don't think it's a great trait. The OP has then decided to continue with the relationship, despite his fundamental lack of trust.

I'd be saving as much as possible OP and then getting out and ending the relationship. It doesn't sound as if there's much love there.

Minezatea · 09/05/2021 09:58

You don't have to be married to be treated equally but just because you live with someone, does not make you entitled to a percentage of money they inherited.

Cocomarine · 09/05/2021 09:59

@BertramLacey is it really a lack of trust, and does it really mean he’s not fully committed?

I’m on my second marriage. I only married him because we both had reasonable assets so mine weren’t “at risk” if we later divorced.

I love him. I am committed to him. I have supported him financially and emotionally through Covid taking away his business. (his asset is not liquid - it’s a house lived in by my stepson!) I have supported him through major illness including intimate personal care. I have financially supported my other stepson through university - though I met him at 17 and he never lived with me or was parented by me.

I am totally committed to my husband. But many relationships don’t work out no matter how committed you are personally... and no way in hell was I going to open myself up to losing half my house if it turned out I was wrong in trusting him. That would just be naïve. Not wanting to potentially give half of your hard earned money away to someone you no longer want a relationship with, especially if that’s because they’ve treated you badly isn’t about commitment.

You can trust and commit with laying yourself open financially 🤷🏻‍♀️

LemonTT · 09/05/2021 10:04

@HerMammy

MN is so odd, for the sake of a piece of paper (marriage certificate) this woman is being treated as if she’s a grassy lodger, if this post was about her DH everyone would be demanding she’s put on the deeds. Does everyone have to be married to be treated equally in a relationship 🤷🏼‍♀️
Blindly missing the point that the OP was married to the father of her children. Her current partner is not liable for the sacrifices she made in this marriage nor is he responsible for maintenance.

The OP and her children have benefitted from living with this man for the past six years.

There is not going to be a legal change to marriage laws or cohabitation laws that does not provide a right for a man or woman to protect their wealth and income in these type of circumstances. There have been no children or deteriorating health factors. The OP makes a compelling case for pre nups being enforceable.

All I can say is that if I was the partner here I would gladly give my OH a few grand to leave so I could cut all ties.

IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 09/05/2021 10:07

He has at least been up front about this, but I don't think it's a great trait

I think it’s sensible. You can be in a relationship without wanting to risk all your assets especially when you have children from a previous relationship.

If a woman posted her boyfriend wanted to get married but she owned the house outright, had existing children she would be told to think very carefully of the risks and likely advised it’s not worth it. If they said they felt they were owed £1k a year despite having paid no rent etc they would be ripped apart.

Annetisa17 · 09/05/2021 10:18

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AhNowTed · 09/05/2021 10:21

OP I'd have done the same in your boyfriends shoes.

My DH and I have worked to build up our assets. No bloody way would I remarry and potentially hand half that over to a new DH. Those assets are for my children to inherit, not somebody else's.

Your mistake was not protecting your own or indeed your children's security.

You could have said no, either we buy together equally or it's not happening.

Or you could have bought your own place and rented it out.

WouldBeGood · 09/05/2021 10:26

@freerunner75 I think it’s perfectly reasonable for you to be worried. You may have rights, depending on the extent of your input into the property. I’d take legal advice if I were you just so you know exactly where you stand. It is also possible to make a cohabitation agreement to set out what would happen in the event of a split.

Original poster
freerunner75 · 09/05/2021 11:18

The reason I am being slightly vague with my figures etc, is that it is extremely personal. I don’t wish to go into the details. Let’s just say the money to the joint account is for food only (along with most bills) (amount towards food is approx £90 per week) . The additional money I spend goes towards other household needs such as cleaning products, pet food, toiletries (for all), additional food if we have people over, birthday gifts (all family), my car, my kids cars (although they have started paying themselves now they are older and able), per insurance (joint pets), phone etc etc. I have not had enough disposable income to save previously, or else I would have done. I am perhaps very naive but i am not stupid. My eldest has just been sacked from his job (worked for my partner! That’s another story right there!) so is unable to contribute at the moment although he was.. and my daughter is still at college.

I came into this relationship believing we wanted the same things, he was on the same page or else I would never have given up my previous home. When I had committed to moving in with him, a year down the line is when he purchased the house we are in now.. without my knowledge. I couldn’t then just leave, as I had just settled my kids into a new school and relocated my job. (Moved to different area) I had little choice which I do resent massively. But, I still thought we might get married and I still loved him very much. So I got on with it.

The whole marriage things is a carrot on a stick it seems.. he still talked about us buying somewhere together jointly to rent out which has never transpired. He also stills talks about one day getting married.. when things are right.?!?

I am not with him to obtain his assets. They are his... quite rightly he has worked hard for them. I don’t expect him to support my children financially either, that is their fathers job and mine. Since their father hasn’t bothered, (have tried CSA but he has now gone onto benefits with his 3rd wife and sixth child even though I know he works) it is down to me. I accept that but that is also why things have been hard. I appreciate I should have saved for myself but it has previously been impossible, other than to put money away for driving lessons and second hand cars for my children. That’s literally all I have been able to save for. Now, I can start for me.

I have done a hell of a lot to support my partner over the years... which I don’t expect financial compensation for per se, it’s part of being in a relationship. But what I find grossly unfair is that if he decides to be an arse.. (which has happened recently)... he can Chuck me out on the streets and I have absolutely nothing to show for the past 12 years of commitment and work within our relationship building up his portfolio.. just some security assurance would be a start.

Just reading that back now I can see I have been a complete mug. But realistically how the hell do you just up and leave because things aren’t quite how you want them.. when you still deeply love that person and they still potentially offer what you want? Risk throwing 12 years of a relationship away to start all over again when it might work out ok?? I guess I am just an idiot.

So. I will focus on me and my kids and putting as much as I can away. I do have a small pension which I have put some money away in.. I will try to build that and save towards a deposit for somewhere even just to rent out for the time being.

I don’t mean to sound whingy or pathetic. I’m just frustrated and upset about my life choices I guess.. Very difficult to change when you are in love with someone.

I think if this was a reverse situation and I was in my partners position... I know I would (if I had the financial ability to as he does - partly thanks to me!) have something set aside for them in case things didn’t work out if I could see they had worked really hard and not just bummed off me.. because if they gave up everything to be with me and took that risk then I feel it would only be fair to help them get back on their feet if it all went wrong. But that’s just me.. guess i need to have a word with myself and man up a bit!

OP posts:
Original poster
freerunner75 · 09/05/2021 11:31

One final thing too.. the equity/ assets that have grown substantially since we have been together.. far far outweigh £12k so I would not be asking to take him for half his assets or anywhere near even a quarter. I would have absolutely no intention of that even if we were married. Believe it or not, it’s about security for my children and I beyond our relationship if that were to happen, not about me trying to gain wealth from his position.

OP posts:
WetF1reDay82942 · 09/05/2021 11:35

There is info on www.gov.uk & Citizens advice & money saving expert websites about the difference between single & married people

If you have no joint children

I fail to see how you are entitled to any of his money or assets or him to yours

Just because you live together, doesn't mean that you are financially joined

osbertthesyrianhamster · 09/05/2021 11:37

@HerMammy

MN is so odd, for the sake of a piece of paper (marriage certificate) this woman is being treated as if she’s a grassy lodger, if this post was about her DH everyone would be demanding she’s put on the deeds. Does everyone have to be married to be treated equally in a relationship 🤷🏼‍♀️
As far as the law is concerned, yes, otherwise he's under no obligation. And from the sounds of it, he won't. Living together means nothing. And if they were married, she wouldn't need to be 'put on the deeds' to have a claim on it.

People need to be aware of this and own their choices to shack up with someone without marriage or civil partnership.

osbertthesyrianhamster · 09/05/2021 11:42

I came into this relationship believing we wanted the same things, he was on the same page or else I would never have given up my previous home.

But you did! You gave it up without a marriage certificate. That's for you to own. It's in the past now, but it was your choice to give up your home, uproot your kids, etc for a boyfriend.

He's not you, he's him and he's not going to set aside money for you, or pay out you, etc. That's not going to happen!

You see a financial value to what you've given him, he does not, never will and he is under no obligation to do so. That's that.

You continue to stay with him, then you do so knowing this is who he is, you need to put your own interests first the same way he does and proceed accordingly.

But holding onto resentment for choices you made and his not fronting you money is pointless because you can't change any of it.

The house is not yours and you have no claim on it. He's seen to that.

He learned from the past and you did not. Well, now's a time to start because this isn't going to change.

MiddleClassProblem · 09/05/2021 11:48

The whole marriage things is a carrot on a stick it seems.. he still talked about us buying somewhere together jointly to rent out which has never transpired. He also stills talks about one day getting married.. when things are right.?!?

But surely this hasn’t transpired because you don’t have anything to add to the pot and it’s not his fault.

The pet costs should be part of the joint pot but other than that you seem to be just listing regular outgoings.

I think most of use are struggling with us that before you were renting and paying off debts, primary/early secondary aged kids etc. Surely your outgoings were more then? And now you have less out goings and more income.

If there was a reason that the relationship impacted your working hours or you had a child or joint assets, then yes but you don’t. You are living more cheaply than if you were on your own with your kids. Because you don’t have anything shared other than the pets, it is a bit more akin to how flatmates or a live in landlord pay for things (although food included) and if I’m honest, I think that’s fair although shared pets should be in the pot.

MiddleClassProblem · 09/05/2021 11:56

Some part of you must be expecting him to give up assets if you are disappointed you haven’t bought somewhere together to let or as you say “never transpired” but you never had anything to add to that pot.

Blossomtoes · 09/05/2021 12:01

@FrangipaniBlue

he pays his mortgage and we split the bills with me paying 75% and him 25%

Why on earth would you agree to this????

I can understand him wanting to pay the mortgage himself so that it is his house if it is part of an inheritance arrangement, but you should have been splitting the "living costs" 50:50 and using some of your money to build your own safety net!

She agreed to it because she has two kids who aren’t his. Isn’t he subsidising her enough? She’s already living rent free.
IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 09/05/2021 12:08

I still don’t get why you haven’t saved though. Your bills are less as he shares them, you have no rent and always had two children and claimed to be self sufficient when single so that doesn’t seem to match.

How did you plan to buy jointly if you have nothing to contribute.

The twelve years is a red herring as you weren’t living together for six of them.

Blossomtoes · 09/05/2021 12:11

@HerMammy

MN is so odd, for the sake of a piece of paper (marriage certificate) this woman is being treated as if she’s a grassy lodger, if this post was about her DH everyone would be demanding she’s put on the deeds. Does everyone have to be married to be treated equally in a relationship 🤷🏼‍♀️
If she was married it wouldn’t matter if her name was on the deeds or not. If you want the rights marriage confers, get married. It really is that simple.
Puzzledandpissedoff · 09/05/2021 12:14

I came into this relationship believing we wanted the same things, he was on the same page or else I would never have given up my previous home

Fair enough at the time, but over all these years it's become clear that he wasn't on the same page, and yet still you chose to stay - and sorry, but it is a choice

I get that uprooting your DCs would be hard, but surely not as hard as continuing this, especially when there's absolutely nothing to stop him forcing you out at any time

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