That women shouldn’t be forced into silence over males competing in female sports

[Ikeasucks]

NEW Zealand has selected a 43 yr old transwoman to represent them in the Olympics in the women’s weightlifting competition. Female athletes feel they are being forced into silence on the issue. How did it come to this?

www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/females-told-be-quiet-transgender-issue-ex-weightlifter-2021-05-07/

I find it interesting that drugs containing testosterone are under the banned category in sport.

Yet born a male and developed biologically using testosterone isn't an issue - if you just say you identify as female.

This inspiring transwoman competes for Samoa at football. She is a proud transgender woman and fa'afafine and perfectly happy playing with the men.
www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/01/footballs-first-faafafine-trans-rights-trailblazer-jaiyah-saelua-on-stardom-and-sisterhood

If you play mixed football or indeed mixed hockey or any sport advertised in advance as being mixed 1. You know it will be men and women 2. The rules and officiating takes account of that

That is very different to turning up to play a game of women’s hockey only to discover the other side features 2 TW on their “women’s” team

Also if 1 or 2 TW are ok on a women’s team, how many is too many? Would a ladies hockey team made up entirely of TW be ok?

But why would anyone want to win in a category they don't belong to and have a significant advantage in?

There's no way I'd want to win an over 70s competition because it would be using my age advantage to compete on unequal terms. What would be the point?

But then again I don’t believe that trans people want to compete in the section they identify with just because it Might give them a physical advantage.
Maybe not most but some certainly hate women and enjoy stopping them from succeeding- they have even been quite open about it.

@lonel

But then again I don’t believe that trans people want to compete in the section they identify with just because it Might give them a physical advantage. Maybe not most but some certainly hate women and enjoy stopping them from succeeding- they have even been quite open about it.

I’ve not personally seen anyone who is trans and hates women, so I can’t comment on that, although there are idiots everywhere so I can believe it, sadly. Women are vilified, as are trans people, in all walks of life. It is a cis white male world, and we are expected to just live in it. As I have mentioned, I think it’s good to have conversations about this! I don’t think anyone should be silenced on this!

Bambam

No one is saying anything about trans people except that trans women are physically male and, as such, have an advantage against women in sport.

Yes, some will find that reality hurtful and uncomfortable, but it is reality nonetheless. It is not down to sportswomen who have devoted their lives to training to validate someone's feelings.

It is just truth. Nothing mean or unkind.

Also, as the original topic was that people feel
Silenced in giving their thoughts on this matter, I do think everyone deserves to be part of a conversation, not just those that hold the most power, which appears to be the case here and quite often so, too. My example was just that, an example! I understand people have different experiences and again, that is why I am open to conversation.

If you win, you’ll forever wonder whether you were competing on a level playing field or if you had an unfair advantage.

I doubt anyone would wonder in powerlifting- the difference between men and women is huge.

Hubbard wasn't anywhere near the men's world top 20 when he was in his prime but he will easily win the women's competition at 43, if his dodgy knee holds up.

@lifeissweet

Bambam

No one is saying anything about trans people except that trans women are physically male and, as such, have an advantage against women in sport.

Yes, some will find that reality hurtful and uncomfortable, but it is reality nonetheless. It is not down to sportswomen who have devoted their lives to training to validate someone's feelings.

It is just truth. Nothing mean or unkind.

I am not trans myself so I don’t want to speak on behalf of those who are, with regards to validating their feelings. But you make an interesting point. I do think women have had to work so, so hard to get equal rights with men. (Frustratingly, but that is how it has been. I am glad women are having SOME wins with regards to equality, we still have a long way to go!)

Worth pointing out that if a female competitor (as in, an actual female) naturally had even the lowest acceptable level of testosterone for transwomen according to IOC rules, she would either have to medicate to suppress it or would be barred from competing.

The equivalent in equestrian sports would be me driving my car who identifies as a horse through the course.

I'm sure jockeys do a lot of hard work and training but the horse cancels out a fair amount of the sex differences between them.

It is really not a fair comparison to boxing, weight lifting and sprinting.

A better analogy might be Shetland ponies competing against Clydesdale horses. They're all equine, after all.

@donquixotedelamancha

But then again I don’t believe that trans people want to compete in the section they identify with just because it Might give them a physical advantage.

Hubbard is not a very nice chap in real life. He does not present as female or seem to expend much energy 'being trans' except in so far as is required to qualify for the women's category.

It seems a little naive to think that no transwoman will ever be motivated by gaining advantage.

Ah. Then it is also a shame they are almost making a mockery of being trans too. From what I have seen, being publicly trans is not easy at all (I am not taking away the struggles of women in the past or now, not at all)

I don’t believe that trans people want to compete in the section they identify with just because it Might give them a physical advantage.

First of all, it does give them a physical advantage. There's no "might". It does. That's precisely why sports are sex segregated, or supposedly they are.

Secondly, we already have trans women competing in women's sports and no natal woman can get the gold. So why do you not believe it?

Third, even if no trans woman had done it yet (they have, several times), women athletes still need protection against it.

Men competing in women’s sport after they declare tat they are females - a biological impossibility is unacceptable.

@DrSbaitso

I'm sure jockeys do a lot of hard work and training but the horse cancels out a fair amount of the sex differences between them.

It is really not a fair comparison to boxing, weight lifting and sprinting.

A better analogy might be Shetland ponies competing against Clydesdale horses. They're all equine, after all.

Good point regarding different breeds! BUT my example was with regards to human equestrian athletes, in that it has never been a huge problem having mixed competitions. I will point out, that some people have said that other sports with have different issues regarding mixed comps, and different levels of suitability. I can understand their views!

This Olympics will be a good opportunity for a lot of us to go I told you so.
A hollow victory.

But then again I don’t believe that trans people want to compete in the section they identify with just because it Might give them a physical advantage.

Their motivation is immaterial to the unfairness on women displaced by them. Whatever the reasons might be, they don't seem to be considering the needs let alone the 'wants' of women competitors.

@Bambam2019

Okay so. Everyone’s outraged at this. But I compete in show jumping and the classes are mixed 🤷🏻‍♀️ And nobody complains that it is unfair (and I’ve been told it’s not a real sport before, it absolutely is and challenge anyone who thinks so to have a go. Not at all just sitting and looking pretty). But then again I am a very liberal feminist and proud of being so.

To be fair show jumping the horse is doing most of the work

@DrSbaitso

I don’t believe that trans people want to compete in the section they identify with just because it Might give them a physical advantage.

First of all, it does give them a physical advantage. There's no "might". It does. That's precisely why sports are sex segregated, or supposedly they are.

Secondly, we already have trans women competing in women's sports and no natal woman can get the gold. So why do you not believe it?

Third, even if no trans woman had done it yet (they have, several times), women athletes still need protection against it.

Agree.

There's a reason taking testosterone based drugs are banned in sport. Because it give an advantage.

Yet being male sex and developed using testosterone is apparently fine - if you say you're a woman!

Then it is also a shame they are almost making a mockery of being trans too.

Yes and no. The public policy aims of the bodies campaigning for 'trans rights' are to ensure (in law and practice) that people like Hubbard are treated exactly the same as transsexuals with a GD diagnosis who pass as female and receive medical treatment to transition.

Huge effort and money is going into ensuring that the Laurel Hubbard's of the world can access women's sports, prisons, refuges and short lists. Transsexuals who object are called 'truscum' and abused.

In the eyes of some LH is a brave pioneer and this is a victory for equality.

I compete in show jumping and the classes are mixed

Oh yeah, that's the same as powerlifting.

Someone always brings up horse riding.
Unless you wear the saddle it's not relevant.