That women shouldn’t be forced into silence over males competing in female sports

[Ikeasucks]

NEW Zealand has selected a 43 yr old transwoman to represent them in the Olympics in the women’s weightlifting competition. Female athletes feel they are being forced into silence on the issue. How did it come to this?

www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/females-told-be-quiet-transgender-issue-ex-weightlifter-2021-05-07/

@Ifyourefeelingsinister

Is it too far fetched to imagine a scenario where countries realise fielding trans women in female categories equals medals, and start to actively seek out trans competitors for this very reason? Result: women's sport completely trashed for women.

Exactly!

They use to scout female athletes by height and build when competing and often trained them in a sport suitable for their physique.

An example is high and long jumpers are often spotted on track and trialled and their was the skeleton athlete spotted this way.

Now they just have to find a man who isn't good enough for the male competition but due to biology better than the woman and convince them to say they identify as female.

What can we do?

If you or your DC play sports, check their policies and write to the sporting federation with your concerns.
Both British Cycling and England Rugby have recently held consultations on their shoddy anti-women transgender policies after being put under pressure by their members/the public.

Write to your MP
Write to the IOC
Have a look at the latest science. Prof Ross Tucker’s Science of Sport podcasts are really good at explaining the recent research. Talk to your friends about it and when the Olympics is on, make sure Hubbard’s story is discussed.

We’re having to fight for our sports again, old school grassroots style.

Now they just have to find a man who isn't good enough for the male competition but due to biology better than the woman and convince them to say they identify as female.

Google Emily Bridges.

@BathTangle

I've lurked and lurked on threads about this and concluded we need to go right back the start: why do we have women's sports categories in the first place?

To state the obvious, this is because there is a physical difference (height, weight, strength, bulk, speed, stamina) on average between men and women.

Assuming that trans woman athletes accept that this is the reason the two categories exist in the first place, it is surely illogical for anyone to think that it would be fair or appropriate for someone with male physique to compete in the female category.

If they do think that it is fair for a male physique to compete with female physiques, there is then no point in having the sex categories at all and it shouldn't matter to them whether they are competing against males or females.

As they clearly care SO MUCH about being allowed to be in the women's category rather than competing in the men's category, they clearly accept there is a difference (otherwise why would it matter what category they were in?)... and so should logically accept that they, with a male physique are different from the women.

But apparently to call out the cognitive dissonance that must be going on to think there both is and isn't a difference between the male and female physiques is transphobic and must be silenced.

True, but they would want you believe that they are women and not different in any way.

Honestly, why even have separate women's sports if they're allowing biological males to compete against biological females? It's so, so stupid. All for the sake of making a precious few people feel better about themselves!

True, but they would want you believe that they are women and not different in any way.

Do Laurel Hubbard and Rachel MacKinnon really believe themselves that they have biologically become XX rather than XY? I am pretty sure they know this is not the case but will call out anyone who is prepared to say so.

I just can't imagine what kind of utter fucking loser athlete is happy to win in these conditions. It's so unsporting.

If trans athletes need to be accommodated outside of their born sex category then there should be an open category separate to the biological categories

Sharron Davies has been very vocal about all this and her suggestion is the Mens category is open to anybody of any sex or gender presentation and the womens category becomes a protected category for females only.

Otherwise within a generation any people winning any sporting categories will be of the male sex no matter how they present themselves.

Okay so. Everyone’s outraged at this.
But I compete in show jumping and the classes are mixed 🤷🏻‍♀️ And nobody complains that it is unfair (and I’ve been told it’s not a real sport before, it absolutely is and challenge anyone who thinks so to have a go. Not at all just sitting and looking pretty).
But then again I am a very liberal feminist and proud of being so.

Do Laurel Hubbard and Rachel MacKinnon really believe themselves that they have biologically become XX rather than XY?

It doesn’t matter whether or not they believe it. What matters is that they’re forcing us to pretend they have, to the detriment of our own... everything.

I’ve tried emailing my MP, she is too interested in her own career path to be remotely interested in facing the truth of more disadvantaged women. I have heard teachers coming out with this crap, because it now matters that women let men push other women around if they are to keep their own positions.

The only way out of this is to act en masse. Biological female athletes should be considering how much of a future they have anyway if they do not boycott events with trans women in them: trans will take priority anyway.

Why there used to be so much furore over drugs giving unfair advantage, but being make does not, I will never know, except that we are in a similar situation to the post war everywhere: not enough going round for all the men, let alone everyone. And so women must be pushed to the backs of the queues and terrorised into never coming forward again.

Male, not make. In show jumping, Bambam, the horse does the work not the human.

Okay so. Everyone’s outraged at this.
But I compete in show jumping and the classes are mixed 🤷🏻‍♀️ And nobody complains that it is unfair

As I pointed out upthread, equestrian sports are one of the very few sports where the sex of the person sitting on the horse has no real bearing on the performance of the horse. Handling the horse takes real skill but that’s it. The same can’t be said for a sport that requires strength, speed or stamina, where the sex of the competitor matters a great deal. You can’t really make that comparison.

@Ifyourefeelingsinister

Is it too far fetched to imagine a scenario where countries realise fielding trans women in female categories equals medals, and start to actively seek out trans competitors for this very reason? Result: women's sport completely trashed for women.

It’s already happening mothership.sg/2019/08/chinese-runners-woman-man-video/

@Bambam2019

Okay so. Everyone’s outraged at this. But I compete in show jumping and the classes are mixed 🤷🏻‍♀️ And nobody complains that it is unfair (and I’ve been told it’s not a real sport before, it absolutely is and challenge anyone who thinks so to have a go. Not at all just sitting and looking pretty). But then again I am a very liberal feminist and proud of being so.

And do you not understand why something like show-jumping might be suitable for a mixed competition, whereas other sports are not?

Or are you suggesting all sports should be desegregated by sex?

@MayYouLiveInInterestingTimes

Male, not make. In show jumping, Bambam, the horse does the work not the human.

It’s not really as simple as that. Riders have to engage specific muscles to communicate to the horse to move in certain ways. Nobody complains that certain people might have stronger muscles than others in order to ask the horse to move more productively. We just work on getting better. Nobody complains that some people might have longer legs and so can use them more effectively to help engage the horses muscles to be able to jump better. Everyone just works in bettering their own fitness and teqnique. Maybe everyone that you’ve seen doing so just makes it look like it’s all the horse. We always say that any faults are a rider error so the riders absolutely play a huge role :)

Other nations will follow suit with trans athletes to compete.

@Bambam2019 are you suggesting all sports be desegregated by sex?

Well, I’ve played in mixed football teams too when segregated ones didn’t have enough players to form two teams. So I think we need more of a conversation, and I agree with that part of the argument. But I certainly feel transpeople get somewhat vilified and I think it’s largely unjustified to be honest with you.

@Bambam2019

Okay so. Everyone’s outraged at this. But I compete in show jumping and the classes are mixed 🤷🏻‍♀️ And nobody complains that it is unfair (and I’ve been told it’s not a real sport before, it absolutely is and challenge anyone who thinks so to have a go. Not at all just sitting and looking pretty). But then again I am a very liberal feminist and proud of being so.

In sports where sex does not confer an advantage/disadvantage then of course they should be mixed, and generally are.

You must realise that this is not universally the case. Surely you must?

When sex does not confer an advantage/disadvantage you'll generally find women pushing to be allowed to compete in the men's class as it's almost always more prestigious.

Women don't stick to their own competitions for the giggles. Do you think they do?

I think the answer is for more people (men as well as women) to stand up and challenge the nonsensical idea that a person born as a man can be a woman, physically, biologically. They can't. They can dress, act, speak, present themselves in a feminine way (and should be free to do so), but they are still not women, and they never will be.

This shouldn't be controversial.

[quote SaturdayRocks]@Bambam2019 are you suggesting all sports be desegregated by sex?[/quote]
Are you suggesting that ALL sports SHOULD be segregated?

@Quadzilla

Now they just have to find a man who isn't good enough for the male competition but due to biology better than the woman and convince them to say they identify as female.

Google Emily Bridges.

Thanks for that.

Very interesting article and I'm fully supportive of research. Good on Emily for agreeing to be part of this.

It also says what I say about sex transition and gender being different.

Perhaps that’s because the size of human muscles doesn’t really matter as much as it does in, eg a hurdle race? Where human achievement so far already means top level athletes are pushing each other for .001 of a second improvement? Have horses never been selected and bred for their strength and muscle conformation (? That might not be the right word or spelling) in racing and show jumping, because it matters? Thanks for the laugh this evening though, I needed that. Shooting is, I think, another mixed sex sport - because sex does not dominate accuracy, as it does in areas where muscle strength, or conformation, matters.

Of course I don’t believe that women hav segregated sports for fun. But then again I don’t believe that trans people want to compete in the section they identify with just because it Might give them a physical advantage. It is absolutely so much more than that. I do think posts like these get used in a way to bash trans people and degrade them and so I’m
Just offering my perspective. I think it’s good to have an honest conversation (and not one where both sides of the argument just attack each other personally which has been known to happen and is so wrong and doesn’t get anyone anywhere!)