That women shouldn’t be forced into silence over males competing in female sports

[Ikeasucks]

NEW Zealand has selected a 43 yr old transwoman to represent them in the Olympics in the women’s weightlifting competition. Female athletes feel they are being forced into silence on the issue. How did it come to this?

www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/females-told-be-quiet-transgender-issue-ex-weightlifter-2021-05-07/

Whilst I think you are right about people not wanting to watch the new improved 'womens' events, comprised mostly of middle aged men, many people won't admit that out loud because they're meant to find it inspiring, courageous etc.
They'd time out though, of course they would. But they'd never admit why.
I mean, some people can't even admit people can't change sex for real.

Tune out not time out.

An edit button, an edit button, my kingdom for an edit button.

@RebeccaOfSunnyHellFarm

Whilst I think you are right about people not wanting to watch the new improved 'womens' events, comprised mostly of middle aged men, many people won't admit that out loud because they're meant to find it inspiring, courageous etc. They'd time out though, of course they would. But they'd never admit why. I mean, some people can't even admit people can't change sex for real.

I've heard a lot of men in my club ridicule the appearance of former male "athletes", such as Lauren. Wow, they can be cruel. The middle distance coaches in particular have a find time discussing physical attributes not normally found in elite level athletics.

@RebeccaOfSunnyHellFarm

Whilst I think you are right about people not wanting to watch the new improved 'womens' events, comprised mostly of middle aged men, many people won't admit that out loud because they're meant to find it inspiring, courageous etc. They'd time out though, of course they would. But they'd never admit why. I mean, some people can't even admit people can't change sex for real.

I've said it before...I think this farce won't truly end until heterosexual men realise what it means for their chances to see/have natal women. I really wish that wasn't the case but I think male heterosexuality is going to be the sticking point at which people finally accept that the difference is real and matters. It's the benchmark for more or less everything else.

@CirclesWithinCircles makes an excellent point about people not wanting to see relatively substandard male bodies instead of ultimate female ones, and that being likely to help create the pushback. I don't like it, but it's true and hopefully will work in our favour for once.

Hubbard may have got some slack on this because the physique for female weightlifters is different to what's usually considered aesthetically ideal. Might also have helped that the two women who would lose their chance if Hubbard is selected are not white.

What a world.

I think all women in sports on the day this event is due to take place should silently protest by not taking part in ANY sporting event. I think it’s time we stood up for ourselves. ALL WIMWN SHOULD REFUSE TO PARTICIPATE IN SPORTING EVENTS ON THAT DAY. We need to send a clear and strong message that we are not going to stand for this any longer.

No one should participate against this person. Women should refuse to take part. ALL WOMEN. if we can organise BLM and the JOSH fight and GREETIN THUNBERG then surely we can come together for this. Silent non violent protest.

I don't think it's fair to expect sports people to protest.
This is their dream and it's already been cheapened by a male. Why should they have to give up competing altogether?

Also, have you seen what happens to people who err from the official party line of twaw? Only billionaires with metaphorical balls of steel like JK Rowling can weather that storm.

A full female boycott is such a lot to ask, though...as well as subjecting themselves to the endless abuse that is the lot of women who speak out against this, they're also likely to lose their sponsorship etc, and of course it would mean not competing when they've spent their lives dedicated to it and working and training so hard.

Plus, Stonewall etc would just say "so carry on with the trans competitors, they are women".

This is unreal! How the hell is this fair. Load of bollocks. Quite literally.

@RebeccaOfSunnyHellFarm

I don't think it's fair to expect sports people to protest. This is their dream and it's already been cheapened by a male. Why should they have to give up competing altogether?

Also, have you seen what happens to people who err from the official party line of twaw? Only billionaires with metaphorical balls of steel like JK Rowling can weather that storm.

Isn’t this a rather fear based post?

Don’t stand up for your rights becos your not a millionaire/billionaire with influence and you’ve worked hard to get where you are.

If the regulators aren’t doing anything (which is a complete travesty) then it falls on the shoulders of who are affected. If people don’t stand up for what’s right and let it pass becos they fear of losing what they have worked for all their life it will become normal. In fact that’s precisely why they should take a stand they have worked for it all their life!

But standing up for themselves doesn't have to mean pulling out of competition. Why should they? I try to avoid basing this on visuals but the photo of Hubbard on the gold podium ahead of two young women of colour is very powerful. Also, they have a right to compete, to try for personal bests and to be visible. I only found out the name of the woman who pulled out of competing against Dr Ivy a few weeks ago. But there are more voices speaking up now and eventually as with the Eastern European doping scandals, things will change.

I think it's less fear based than reality based. Plenty of cases where sportswomen have suffered because of speaking out up thread.

It's irrelevant whether the contestant in question receives a medal or not. Even if they don't end up on the podium, they've already deprived a woman a place by being there. Not to mention depriving millions of girls of a role model they can aspire to be.

DrSbaitso
I've said it before...I think this farce won't truly end until heterosexual men realise what it means for their chances to see/have natal women. I really wish that wasn't the case but I think male heterosexuality is going to be the sticking point at which people finally accept that the difference is real and matters. It's the benchmark for more or less everything else.

Sadly I agree. Too many men just don't care enough about women's safety or spaces, and will only wake up and do something when it directly affects them or their opportunities to masturbate.

For all the men screaming TWAW, when they log off twitter and log onto P0rnhub, they sure as hell know what a woman's body is.

For all the men screaming TWAW, when they log off twitter and log onto P0rnhub, they sure as hell know what a woman's body is.
Why do you think cis is being forced upon us. You mark my words, if this madness is allowed to continue 'cis' will become the most viewed catagory on porn sites, with women alone as a niche fairly unpopular tab...

@RebeccaOfSunnyHellFarm

For all the men screaming TWAW, when they log off twitter and log onto P0rnhub, they sure as hell know what a woman's body is. Why do you think cis is being forced upon us. You mark my words, if this madness is allowed to continue 'cis' will become the most viewed catagory on porn sites, with women alone as a niche fairly unpopular tab...

Indeed. How depressing.

@ElphabaTWitch

No one should participate against this person. Women should refuse to take part. ALL WOMEN. if we can organise BLM and the JOSH fight and GREETIN THUNBERG then surely we can come together for this. Silent non violent protest.

I think it would only work if it really was all women, or close to it.

Realistically, that is unlikely to happen for a variety of reasons.

1. there isn't, afaik, any real way for women sports people to organise as a group - it's very different to when national sporting bodies stage boycotts.

2. the 'tragedy of the commons' effect - a boycott would be good for women's sport as a whole, but it's bad for each of the individuals involved.

3. and doubtless there will be some sportswoman who are currently ok with male participation - cynically, those with an extra large team member or two may be decidedly positive, while it gives them an advantage.

doubtless there will be some sportswoman who are currently ok with male participation

Megan Rapinoe is. She wrote an article defending trans women in sport. It was highly emotive, all about feelings and prejudice and things like that, but it said not one word about the fact of biological male advantage.

Like I said, they can't win on the facts because those are truly indisputable and everybody knows it. They have to reach for derailment, defusal and intimidation. That's all there is.

From what little I know, there is one professional FTM trans sportsman out there (boxing I think) and such athletes are IOC ratified.

Fair enough.

MTF, no chance. Which is the same view as Caitlyn Jenner, a transwoman and former Olympic gold medallist.

Women and men are different. For the love of sanity, both Williams sisters were beaten by the guy ranked 203rd. The Williams sisters. But there's clearly no advantage whatsoever to someone born male.

So no one is supposed to see an issue with say Martin Bayfield (lockr 6 ft 10, 18 stone) playing against Zoe Aldcroft (same position, 5 ft 9, 13 stone) in rugby?

What happens post sporting career? Not only could a trans woman sweep the board or injure someone (Fallon Fox springs to mind) they could then revert to their birth gender?

It's ok to hit a woman as long as you identify as a woman? Is this what we're coming to?

Live however the hell you want, I don't actually care how you do it and I'll back you as long as you don't negatively affect someone else doing it.

Hopefully, in the UK at least, Labour's absolute trouncing in the recent elections will put paid to the advance of this sort of ridiculous scenario.

@SofiaMichelle

Hopefully, in the UK at least, Labour's absolute trouncing in the recent elections will put paid to the advance of this sort of ridiculous scenario.

I hope so too, but sadly I fear labour are not making much progress on what the causes of their heavy defeat might be. (Apart from blaming the voters for not understanding what they’re voting for!)

I think the main problem for me is the lack of ability to discuss this massive issue publicly, rationally and sensibly without being shouted down or worse.

@SofiaMichelle

Hopefully, in the UK at least, Labour's absolute trouncing in the recent elections will put paid to the advance of this sort of ridiculous scenario.

I agree with watermelon. Labour aren't joining the dots and, even if they realised women weren't voting for them because of their stance on this, they would just shrug it off as bigotry.

Labour simply don't want to address this. They know full well what this means and that many women object but they don't care.

Easier to call people stupid and bigots than upset the woke supporters.

The fact that labour has never had a female leader in its history speaks volumes of how highly they are rated within the party.

I don't think it's a single issue vote changer for many - obviously it will be for a few.
In general the Tories may not benefit much as many voters will just see it as general top down wankery along the lines of elf and safety.

It will peel off a few votes from Lab and Lib though.