To say that being a vegan is no better for the environment than being a meat eater?

[OnlyInYourDreams]

Unless you eat only home grown, locally sourced products?

Obviously some people are vegan because they don’t like the idea of using any kind of animal products. But all too often people say that they’re vegan because “it’s better for the environment when this is categorically not the case.

Lots of fruit/veg have to be imported which is actually worse for the environment because it involves pumping man-made substances into the environment.

Products like almond milk are terrible for the environment because e.g. it takes 1600l of water to produce 1l of almond milk. Coca-Cola is practically a green product in comparison…

If people want to be vegan, why not just say you want to be vegan. Coming up with reasons such as “it’s better for the environment” which are just rubbish and laughable is only going to increase the amount of people who don’t take vegans seriously.

You caught us. It's a godly masturbation conspiracy. Better have a steak and a wank before the solar powered van comes.

@PMcGintysGoat

are you really suggesting the choice is either 1) live a 100% perfectly ethical life or 2) do absolutely nothing at all to help the planet? All or nothing?

You're missing the point. The thing you believe is ethical is only ethical if you're eating what you produce in your allotment. If you're eating food produced on the other side of the world, with no interest in how that meat-alternative is produced and the impact it has, then the so-called ethical alternative isn't. And yet you think 'it's fine to fly to Florid because, since I don't eat meat I'm doing everything I can.'

Be honest. Not eating meat might satisfy an argument about not eating animals - fine. But if you want to do something positive for the planet you need to drive and fly less, not kid yourself that almonds are better for the environment than lamb from a nearby farm.

I’m not a vegan. I’m not even a vegetarian. I don’t think anyone, aside from your SIL (you haven’t said what she said when you told her though) thinks that because they don’t eat meat it negates their flight.

Do you recycle?

We've poisoned the rice supply. Beware of unsolicited korma.

I work with four.... No, three, one of the left last year.

Yanbu. A healthy balanced diet of local produces is always best. Ive a family member whos vegan for 30 plus years who fighting an awful cancer at the moment, the cancer may or may not be linked to genetics not diet but due to the need for blood transfusions now the need for a balanced diet was suggested by doctor s. At the moment both a balanced diet and had blood transfusions been rejected.

@Pumperthepumper

Well, don't you think he was just virtue-signalling his wokeness about the current anti cow stuff going around to get woke brownie points?

Doesn't it sound bizarre that he wouldn't make a change that would actually make a difference?

I mean, he has multiple gas guzzling planes zipping around the world every single day, dozens of personal vehicles, multiple private homes everywhere. Yet, stopping people on his planes having the choice of beef for lunch is "saving the planet".

I did say aside from Richard Branson but still, the question remains: all or nothing?

Looking at the history of man and its development over milenia proves that meat played a crucial role in brain and intelligence. How can meat suddenly become "bad"? Doesn't make sense.

If we want to start conserving our environment we can start by giving up our cars, travel and foreign food imports. All this uses fossil fuels which cause massive damage to our environment. Let us stop using electricity unless essential. Reducing plastic use is already happening, but slowly.

Eat seasonal fresh vegetables and fruits, source local animal proteins from farms around us.

How far are you prepared to go?

Me, we have one family car now, got rid of the second one three years ago when I managed to get work locally that I can walk to. Its not perfect but public transport is dire here. I get my eggs from a local small holder and source my meat locally, too. Scotland produces some fabulous ethical beef, lamb and pork.

On the flip side my colleague had a severe heart condition and was recommended a vegan or low fat pescetarian diet.
Perhaps you can work with your relative to work out what they are lacking and where they can obtain it in a way that's acceptable for them.

People believe all sorts of nonsense, so whilst you are being unreasonable, you are well within your rights to be ignorant.

pumper Since I havent seen most of my family for five bastarding months, and don't generally try to fall put with relations on social media, the answer 'I didn't like her social media post and she probably didn't notice' is a bit dull I'm afraid. What exactly were you hoping for?

I reduce, reuse and recycle like a good-un and am horrified by how many tray liners tesco insist on sending.

Looking at the history of man and its development over milenia proves that meat played a crucial role in brain and intelligence. How can meat suddenly become "bad"? Doesn't make sense.

If we want to start conserving our environment we can start by giving up our cars, travel and foreign food imports. All this uses fossil fuels which cause massive damage to our environment. Let us stop using electricity unless essential. Reducing plastic use is already happening, but slowly.

Eat seasonal fresh vegetables and fruits, source local animal proteins from farms around us.

How far are you prepared to go?

Me, we have one family car now, got rid of the second one three years ago when I managed to get work locally that I can walk to. Its not perfect but public transport is dire here. I get my eggs from a local small holder and source my meat locally, too. Scotland produces some fabulous ethical beef, lamb and pork.

Well, you must know why meat has suddenly become ‘bad’ - it’s because at no point in the history of the earth has anyone eaten meat the way we do now. We can all agree that locally sourced, once a week is the way to go - but let’s not kid ourselves that most people are having a lovely time at their local farm shop choosing what cut of hand-reared pork to have as their treat. The vast majority of people are eating the cheapest cut they can get with a complete ignorance of where it came from.

We don’t have to start by making massive changes to our lifestyles. We need everyone doing their bit. We don’t need people sneering at vegans for being stupid enough to fall for packaging claims (you did with low fat but whatever). We need everyone reducing their meat intake, reducing their carbon footprint, reusing and recycling. To suggest you have to go the whole hog and live in a mud hut or don’t bother changing a single thing is useless.

Being vegan is definitely better for animals

@PMcGintysGoat

pumper Since I havent seen most of my family for five bastarding months, and don't generally try to fall put with relations on social media, the answer 'I didn't like her social media post and she probably didn't notice' is a bit dull I'm afraid. What exactly were you hoping for?

I reduce, reuse and recycle like a good-un and am horrified by how many tray liners tesco insist on sending.

Oh weird! Just, because you were having a go at her for her choices, and slagging her off on the internet, I thought you must have had at least a conversation with her. But no.

Why shop at Tesco then? Vote with your feet. Strange you’re so anti your SIL at least attempting something new while you plod along with your silent rage at conglomerates - while still giving them your money.

We don’t have to start by making massive changes to our lifestyles. We need everyone doing their bit. We don’t need people sneering at vegans for being stupid enough to fall for packaging claims (you did with low fat but whatever). We need everyone reducing their meat intake, reducing their carbon footprint, reusing and recycling. To suggest you have to go the whole hog and live in a mud hut or don’t bother changing a single thing is useless.

Very sage.

I know a few vegans. I can honestly say the topic of masturbation has never come up in general conversation the ones I know are all about the animals and simply think animals are not on this earth for us to use and abuse. I actually really admire them

I think the reason there are so many plant based alternatives is simply that there is increased demand for them.

We need everyone reducing their meat intake, reducing their carbon footprint, reusing and recycling.

Everyone should reduce/reuse/recycle.
Everyone should reduce their carbon footprint, and probably improve their mental health, by walking a little more.
Everyone should avoid US feedlot beef.
Everyone should reduce nut milk consumption.

However. If you think only organic farm shops stock grass reared meat you're wrong. Most of the cattle and almost every sheep you see on your nearest hillside is destined for a supermarket, the volume which goes to a farm shop is relatively small. If you eat UK produced lamb your almost guaranteed that it's almost entirely grass reared. If you buy beef from your local Aldi theres a very strong chance it's grass reared.

We're damaging the UK's sustainable meat industry by tarnishing it with the reputation and practices of the USA. And instead we're encouraging people to contribute to huge problems on the other side of the world, albeit where they're out of sight out of mind.

If people want to do something for ethical food start a 'go grass reared' movement. Not something that in practice translates to 'export the troublesome ethics somewhere else where you can't see them'.

Why shop at Tesco then? Vote with your feet.

I don't have a car, I live a long way away from a shop, they deliver my basic groceries?

Strange you’re so anti your SIL at least attempting something new while you plod along with your silent rage at conglomerates - while still giving them your money.

I'm not anti my SIL, I'm anti those who want to enthusiastically tell her that eating beef twice a week is oh so damaging to the environment, whilst being curiously silent about the air and car travel.

@PMcGintysGoat

We need everyone reducing their meat intake, reducing their carbon footprint, reusing and recycling.

Everyone should reduce/reuse/recycle.
Everyone should reduce their carbon footprint, and probably improve their mental health, by walking a little more.
Everyone should avoid US feedlot beef.
Everyone should reduce nut milk consumption.

However. If you think only organic farm shops stock grass reared meat you're wrong. Most of the cattle and almost every sheep you see on your nearest hillside is destined for a supermarket, the volume which goes to a farm shop is relatively small. If you eat UK produced lamb your almost guaranteed that it's almost entirely grass reared. If you buy beef from your local Aldi theres a very strong chance it's grass reared.

We're damaging the UK's sustainable meat industry by tarnishing it with the reputation and practices of the USA. And instead we're encouraging people to contribute to huge problems on the other side of the world, albeit where they're out of sight out of mind.

If people want to do something for ethical food start a 'go grass reared' movement. Not something that in practice translates to 'export the troublesome ethics somewhere else where you can't see them'.

Why haven’t you started it? And your premise suggests it’s only vegans who are eating problematic food on the other side of the world. It’s not true.

It also suggests that every meat eater cares if their food is grass fed. They don’t - most people want cheap, easily accessible food. That’s why people go to Tesco. That’s why the UK eats an insane amount of imported chicken. And fruit.

@PMcGintysGoat statistics show that eating meat is way more bad for the environment than air travel.

If you only eat beef and no other meat or fish twice a week you are doing well at being a reducatarian.

@PMcGintysGoat

Why shop at Tesco then? Vote with your feet.

I don't have a car, I live a long way away from a shop, they deliver my basic groceries?

Strange you’re so anti your SIL at least attempting something new while you plod along with your silent rage at conglomerates - while still giving them your money.

I'm not anti my SIL, I'm anti those who want to enthusiastically tell her that eating beef twice a week is oh so damaging to the environment, whilst being curiously silent about the air and car travel.

But you’re doing exactly the same! You’re preaching about grass fed meat while happily accepting - and paying for! - Tesco to deliver you plastic food trays.

pumper

As I have explained. I do not have a car and do not live within walking distance of a shop. Where do suggest I purchase toilet roll, teabags, cat food? Or should I order them all from separate suppliers so a dozen different vans turn up? Or maybe I should buy a car so I can drive to my nearest local ethical toilet roll and shampoo supplier - oh wait...

I do not buy imported food products, nevermind from Tesco.

I am simply putting out my opinion that trying to solve one problem by doing something that doesn't really solve it, and creates a different problem (albeit one we can't see), isn't taking us any further forward. And worse, it creates a sense that we're taking action to solve a problem, and therefore don't necessarily need to do more.

@PMcGintysGoat

pumper

As I have explained. I do not have a car and do not live within walking distance of a shop. Where do suggest I purchase toilet roll, teabags, cat food? Or should I order them all from separate suppliers so a dozen different vans turn up? Or maybe I should buy a car so I can drive to my nearest local ethical toilet roll and shampoo supplier - oh wait...

I do not buy imported food products, nevermind from Tesco.

I am simply putting out my opinion that trying to solve one problem by doing something that doesn't really solve it, and creates a different problem (albeit one we can't see), isn't taking us any further forward. And worse, it creates a sense that we're taking action to solve a problem, and therefore don't necessarily need to do more.

But that’s exactly what you’re doing too: if you really cared, you’d walk. If you really cared, you’d move closer to a supermarket. If you really cared you’d grow your own. If you really cared you’d only drink tea grown in Britain. Where does the meat in your cat food come from?

My point is: it’s enough to do what you can. So you can slag vegans off (or your sister in law) all you want, you’re no better and you know it.

There is this weird tendency to criticise those who do make some effort much more severely than those who cheerily ignore the whole problem. I’m not sure why.

@PMcGintysGoat

rebeccaofsunny

I have alot of respect for those who live a vegan, off grid lifestyle, having very little impact on others and eating what they can grow, etc.

What frustrates me is vegans telling my sister in law that she is doing some huge good for the planet forgoing meat produced 20 miles away on the side of a mountain, and instead flying vegetables, pulses, soya products from the other side of the world where they're grown to the detriment of local communities, resources and ecology. And ignoring that she flies abroad twice a year, buys a new phone every 9 months, and drives everywhere. If they want her to have a positive impact on the environment they would be telling her to walk, eat local, and holiday abroad less frequently.

I suppose the question is whether your sister in law would, if not vegan, be holidaying locally, walking and limiting her tech purchases.

I strongly suspect that in reality if she weren't vegan, she would be a meat-eater who was flying abroad twice a year, buying a new phone every nine months and driving everywhere - and I don't suppose she'd be eating locally produced expensive meat either. Encouraging her in the minimal amount she is doing seems better than discouraging it?

Hahaha. What utter shit. You carry on deluding yourself to justify your inertia.