To say that being a vegan is no better for the environment than being a meat eater?

[OnlyInYourDreams]

Unless you eat only home grown, locally sourced products?

Obviously some people are vegan because they don’t like the idea of using any kind of animal products. But all too often people say that they’re vegan because “it’s better for the environment when this is categorically not the case.

Lots of fruit/veg have to be imported which is actually worse for the environment because it involves pumping man-made substances into the environment.

Products like almond milk are terrible for the environment because e.g. it takes 1600l of water to produce 1l of almond milk. Coca-Cola is practically a green product in comparison…

If people want to be vegan, why not just say you want to be vegan. Coming up with reasons such as “it’s better for the environment” which are just rubbish and laughable is only going to increase the amount of people who don’t take vegans seriously.

@donquixotedelamancha

Just imagine how much land, food and water it takes to grow a pig to full-size.

Surely this is just an argument for battery farming?

I think the water and land to grown feed is the same even if the pigs are cramped

You’re wrong actually. Just imagine how much land, food and water it takes to grow a pig to full-size. Then imagine the size of the pig and how little food that pig provides.

Pigs are massive and a single one provides a huge amount of food.

Not sure what pigs you're referring to?

If you want to minimise the amount of soya grown to feed you then you should go vegan. The majority of soya planted is grown to feed livestock and it’s a really really inefficient way to make protein to feed people.

Not a vegan myself but the setting up of strawman vegans who subsist on almonds flown in from California, palm oil and Chilean asparagus vs the poor misunderstood omnivore who eats the eggs from their backyard chickens fed with their leftover placentas gets on my tits.

In fact, you sound like the person who refused to believe people would choose not to have children because of the environment, and wanted them to say the 'proper' reason.

Rearing your own children is (for example) better for the environment than eating blueberries. They also taste delicious.

I think the water and land to grown feed is the same even if the pigs are cramped

The land isn't. The UK has a lot of water which could not be moved to somewhere that doesn't.

So the “scientific studies” are clear pulling fast one by calculating the land, food, water to raise a pig to slaughter and comparing it to zero...nothing....no pig existing.

They’re not though are they, animals aren’t plucked from the fields and taken from their natural habitat check our seaspiracy for what happens when we do that they’re bought.. mated.. kept alive with medicines.. fed.. watered and then slaughtered.

Your logic only works if as a human race we take all animals from the wild, which isn’t the case.

So vegans are in favour of species becoming extinct then?

Ducks/chickens/cows/sheep of varying breeds? Without eating them or using them for other bi-products there is literally no reason for them to exist.

You're wrong. Omni people eat fruit and vegetables too. Various studies have shown the vegan diet is better for the environment. How can eating dairy and meat be better when you have to use more land, grow food for the animals and the produce is also imported etc. Also fishing is destroying our oceans. I am vegan and avoid almond milk.

No! Feedlots are where the unsustainable soy ends up. Just because the animal doesn't take up space doesn't mean space isn't required to keep it alive.
If a vegan insists on separate cooking and food arrangements then it becomes more about zeal and purity than the environment. Being flexible to the situation to avoid waste is the most environmentally friendly.

Always ignored is the amount of carbon grass fields capture. It's estimated to be 1-2 tonnes per acre per year. An acre is not a large area. Meat is also more nutritious than plant matter and our bodies can better digest it.
YABU to argue with vegans though. They won't listen. 86% of them go back to eating correctly within a year anyway.

I think you're wrong. But show me figures from reputable sources and I'll believe you.

Not all vegans drink almond milk or consume products with palm oil in. Many don't like fake meat and processed foods. Many of us do try our best to eat seasonally and locally. Of course there are vegan products that aren't good for the environment and there are issues with food miles if you only like avocados and quinoa. These types of products-high food miles, processed crap etc - are also eaten by plenty of omnivores. I don't know why you think people who are vegan for environmental reasons are not aware of these issues.

By the way, for a pp, wild pigs are a thing. Should a breed of animal that we created for our own purposes be allowed to go extinct if we no longer require them... a good philosophical problem but it happens all the time. Think of dog breeds that are no longer in fashion and now on 'in danger' lists.

But it's simply not true op. Yes almond milk isn't great. Oat is the best apparently which is what I drink. But the science speaks for itself.

Always ignored is the amount of carbon grass fields capture. It's estimated to be 1-2 tonnes per acre per year. An acre is not a large area. Meat is also more nutritious than plant matter and our bodies can better digest it. not to mention the fact that any diet which needs supplements is clearly not a healthy diet.

And nowhere did I say that an omnivorous diet is more environmentally friendly, just that veganism isn’t.

Depends on the kind of vegan you are - almonds and avocados are particularly bad due to water use and then there's air transport...

I use this with my brother as he tucks into vegan fare and I eat lamb from a local hill farm (unsuited to other agriculture)

Not to be picky but Veganism isn't about the environment anyway, it's the ethical belief that animals should not be exploited for our benefit. If you're 'vegan' for the environment, you're plant based. Veganism is specifically about the animals.

Do people who eat meat not eat veg then? . I agree that some stuff is not as great for the planet as its made out to be, but most is much better than meat.

You could be an omnivore who only eats roadkill or culled game.

@Rosieposy89

Not to be picky but Veganism isn't about the environment anyway, it's the ethical belief that animals should not be exploited for our benefit. If you're 'vegan' for the environment, you're plant based. Veganism is specifically about the animals.

It's different things to different people, or are people now gatekeeping reasons for being vegan?

I’m a vegan and actually I turned vegan solely because of how cruel the dairy industry is (constantly inseminating cows over and over again to produce milk & taking their calves away). However, you are also factually incorrect and suggest you read this www.google.co.uk/amp/s/plantbasednews.org/news/go-vegan-save-planet-new-environmental-report/

Also, I don’t drink almond milk (I have oat in a bottle from the milkman that’s produced in the UK- it’s called Oato) and I don’t eat palm oil etc. I source my veg box locally etc. I suspect your post is just goady to be honest

are people now gatekeeping reasons for being vegan?

Is this your first time on a MN vegan thread? Yes, yes they are.

@Roboticcarrot - I'm not gatekeeping, but it is important to acknowledge that Veganism is a philosophical belief about not using animals as a commodity, that's why leather/wool are also avoided, etc. It's not just a diet.

Another vegan bashing thread 🙄
Why even start this OP? These never end well.

And for what it's worth, eating less meat is better for the environment. Do your research on how many pounds of grain and how much water it takes to produce 1 pound of beef. Of course it makes sense for the grain to go straight to us and skip the animals.

Even if the person ate a lot of avocado, almonds etc it would still have less impact than eating one animal product a day.

I’m not a vegan, I do eat eggs and honey, but thats it as far as animal products go.

Figures below per year

Drinking 200ml of almond milk everyday would use 27,000l of water and 51kg of greenhouse gases.

Drinking the same amount of cows milk uses 45,000l of water and 229kg of greenhouse gases.

If I ate one chicken breast a day that would use 33,000l of water and 497kg of greenhouse gases.

The same amount of tofu would use just under 3,000l of water and 58kg of greenhouse gases.

If I ate beef 1/2 a week for a year the land required is equivalent to 6 tennis courts and 604kg of greenhouse gases.

If I ate lamb 1/2 a week the land required is the size of 12 tennis courts and 339kg of greenhouse gases.

The meat portions above are 75g in weight, the tofu is 100g and the liquids are 200ml.

I honestly have more respect for omnis who are open about just not wanting to challenge their own beliefs and change their diets versus the ones who spew completely inaccurate bullshit to try to convince themselves that they're environmentally superior to vegans.

They're not.

Also, cut the "vegans don't listen" crap every time we point out that your assertions are incorrect, usually with data to back us up. We don't "listen" because you're wrong.

Eat bacon, whatever, I don't care. But stop kidding yourself that it's because you've got a handle on the environmental impacts of animal agriculture. Accept that it's because you give more of a shit about your own palate than animals, the environment, or your long term health.