to be surprised at how many Mumsnetters are fine with pornography?

[Elizabetth]

Particularly as porn has become so much more mainstream in the past few years, I'd have thought that people would be concerned about premature sexualisation of children. Also I'm surprised that so many women are fine with it given that the humiliation and degradation of women is the central theme of pornography. You only have to look at the titles to realise that.

re kids and porn in the same house.

My psychotherapist friend reckons that everyone 'knows' at some level that children will find everything, wherever it is hidden. Prob bcs they have done so themselves.

Her conclusion - and sorry if this offends, she speaks from the hip (though is not feminist with capitals) - is that having porn in same house as child is, on some level, sexually abusive, since it is almost inevitable that they will find it.

Perhaps you should read MY posts better.

DH does not watch porn regularly. He watches it with me. A handful of times in the years we have been together.

So no, I am not defending his behaviour - it has been with me.

But then perhaps I'm a low life pervert who has been forced into this life.

I'm not saying it undermines her views, I'm just interested to know her opinions on women who watch porn. She's clearly stated her opinions on men watching it but disregards a lot of comments about women doing so.

What about porn films which nothing really happens and it tends to be men with cucumbers down their pants that the women are touching while he still has his trousers up and everything is done behind smoky screens?

It is still classed as PORN.

Is that any worse / better in your opinion?

I agree in that children should not be shown porn or porn images and that they should be anywhere near the porn industry.

I agree that there is some really nasty aspects of the porn industry.

I have been shown some things on this thread that I didn't know about. EG: Jenna jamerson, didn't know she was raped.

However, I still say that not ALL PORN is bad and those that watch it are not pervs or even bad people.

I don't wish to change people points of view but I do wish that people who had such views of porn being bad would stop trying to change my view and make me feel like a perv.

but you can't call it 'indefensible behaviour' when a man watches it and then just brush aside the fact that some women watch it as irrelevant! Surely if Elizabetth thinks it is indefensible for men then she must also think it is indefensible for women to watch it and take pleasure in it?

TMMJ - but that is not "porn". We are talking about pornography being acceptable in society, not sexualisation and semi naked women.

There was a thread about this a while ago (you may have been on it, I cant remember) regarding society and the sexualisation of women - to the tune of things you mention.

norma - i think that bcs a woman can find porn arousing doesn't mean it's not misogynist.

from a 'social crit' pov we are all capable of absorbing the projections of the dominant group in society - that's what those projections are designed to do.

hope that doesn't soudn dismissive - i too have found porn arousing - but bcs I think it speaks to a damaged part of me.

Elizabeth - What about films that show mass murder and I mean the based on true stories films. Is this a better comparison for you?

"I don't see how the fact that some women enjoy porn undermines the arguments against it one iota, actually. Sorry to leap in and answer Elizabethh's question for her btw."

You're right it doesn't. Heterosexual porn is created by men for men using women's bodies. The fact that some women like it or watch it is neither here nor there. It is a masculine industry that serves a masculine consumer.

Norma I told you I wasn't going to engage with someone who misrepresents me. Instead of asking questions why don't you make an argument, then people other than me can address it if they want to.

"What about films that show mass murder and I mean the based on true stories films. Is this a better comparison for you?"

Not really. Once again the actors aren't really being hurt and the blood isn't real.

A better comparison would be those films where they pay tramps to beat one another up. It's the reality that the viewers are interested in.

E (sorry not typing the full name anymore, lol) - What about the porn that is made by women? Is this the same?

It's not just a masculine industry. There is heterosexual porn made by women for women using men's bodies too. Yes, maybe there ins't as much of it, but it does exist.

"My psychotherapist friend reckons that everyone 'knows' at some level that children will find everything, wherever it is hidden. Prob bcs they have done so themselves.

Her conclusion - and sorry if this offends, she speaks from the hip (though is not feminist with capitals) - is that having porn in same house as child is, on some level, sexually abusive, since it is almost inevitable that they will find it."

I agree with this.

E - Is there anything you see as bad as porn in the entertainment industry?

I was abused at 14 - (i'm telling you this before I ask this question as I don't want you to think that I'm being mean or anything) BUT Do you think that the way you view porn has anything to do with your experiences when you were younger?

lucky see my post re absorbing the projections of dominant group..

also, very easy to see that women might think - fuck swallowing a strangers semen day after day and only getting paid $400 for it - I'm going to seize the means of production etc etc"

But empowering? no. just making the best of a very, very bad job.

Message withdrawn

Hmmm, janitor maybe those things are all there because adults like sex, rather than because of porn?

No, I dont accept that they are there because of porn and I made this point on another thread. Semi naked women on the TV, in the mags and papers are purely down to the consumer.

Porn is a very online thing, DVDs in shops are expensive, they are often free on the net.

If people do not like to see these things, lobby it, vote with your cash, nothing will change due to a bunch of women moaning on mumsnet, revenue is key at the end of the day.

"You're right it doesn't. Heterosexual porn is created by men for men using women's bodies. The fact that some women like it or watch it is neither here nor there. It is a masculine industry that serves a masculine consumer.

Norma I told you I wasn't going to engage with someone who misrepresents me. Instead of asking questions why don't you make an argument, then people other than me can address it if they want to."

well perhaps you missed my post where I said sorry I was wrong and quoted the posts that had made me think you'd called men perverts.

I disagree with your point that women watching porn is neither here nor there. I'm rather perplexed that you won't answer my questions as I am genuinely interested to know what your opinion is on women who watch porn. Are they as bad as the men who watch it?

I agree that things like nuts etc are around because society has relaxed enough for these things to be on show but surely this isn't just down to the porn industry.