to be surprised at how many Mumsnetters are fine with pornography?

[Elizabetth]

Particularly as porn has become so much more mainstream in the past few years, I'd have thought that people would be concerned about premature sexualisation of children. Also I'm surprised that so many women are fine with it given that the humiliation and degradation of women is the central theme of pornography. You only have to look at the titles to realise that.

That is true cestlavie, I wish I could find the previous porn discussion I posted on, the OP was totally open to discussion and had some very valid ideas, fortunately they didnt void them all by refusing to actually listen to what anyone else was saying.

an explicit sexual act occurs between two adults.

is it wrong?

it is filmed

is that wrong?

it is viewed

is that wrong?

i applaud clapham's posts on this thread.

if porn is wrong, then the viewing of sex is wrong. why is the viewing wrong? is it the act that is wrong?

is it that money is involved.

if the porn was free would that make it acceptable?

imo there is a lot of misandry (opp of misogeny) on this thread. there is an assumption being made about penetrative acts isn't there?

so if a woman shits on a man in a porn film is the woman being degraded? is the man? what if they are both enjoying it? i use an example of a sex act that most people find incomprehensible....but if a woman likes the smell of lavender when she is having sex is that any less weird, there are infinite sexual proclivities and to me, anything that is consented to and doesn't involve minors or animals is fair game isn't it? who am I to judge that what someone likes is wrong? who is anyone? and if doing it is ok, what is wrong with filming it? and then viewing it?

are there any posters on here that are anti porn that are pro filthy sex? or must sex be wholesome?

norma - you're bar is not low nor high. It's what you enjoy!! Sod everyone else's thoughts. If you're not hurting anyone and not getting hurt yourself then just ignore it!

cestlavie - I'll have the discussion, what would you ban? Me? I'd ban anything to do with kids (including the barely legal mags) I'd put tighter restrictions on the internet to stop underage kids seeing porn and I'd make it harder to buy sexy books.
Also I'd make sure that there was someone "official" or an "official" body who could check conditions on ALL porn sites and if you can't get the certificate then you can't get your DVD produced!!!

Anyone else want to join in?

The top pay-for-porn site in the UK is bangbros, a site whose selling-point is the abuse of women and you completely gloss over that.

"Madamez speaks a lot of sense, and is probably the person who is the most knowledgeable about this subject, with first hand experience, rather than some random links or one or two isolated cases from an online search, I think I'd be more inclined to believe her than someone who has a biased view and isn't willing to listen to any reaonable arguments."

Do you understand the meaning of bias? Because someone who actually makes their living from an industry is not able to be an unbiased defender of it. On the other hand I am not being paid for my views on pornography.

Sophable - I don't find it very exciting to see or have Filthy sex BUT as long as it is consentual AND safe. I don't see the problem, there must be a market out there for it. Same as I don't like the GGG films OR Foot fetish stuff, Feet go through me.

sorry that post was a heinous eyesore in terms of layout

blimey - can't believe this thread is still active . Far too long to read now.

In that case you cannot use your ex porn star argument as she was once a porn star and probably being paid by the newspaper/magazine/whatever.

Luckysalem that all seems quite sensible to me.

Not sure about making it harder to buy sexy books though. I learned everything I know from Jackie Collins.

LOL at "filthy sex".

Swedes - should have known you'd reappear at the mention of filthy sex!! lol

Kittock - How about an age limit? 16 sound ok (seeing as its not so graphic in their descriptions)

I must be Mrs Priggish because I don't know the difference between filthy sex and wholesome sex. Are they mutually exclusive then?

Nope LS, she was just being interviewed by another ex-porn performer. She wasn't paid.

Also I'm more interested in hearing from women who are actually used in pornography rather than someone who writes it or reviews it. Those are very different experiences.

If you bother to read the thread Sophable, you'll see that most of your questions have been answered.

You could always try making an argument of your own though.

wow. how very hostile.

definitely not mutually exclusive swede, that's kind of my point...

Lucky, have to say 16 would have been too old for me. And how do you decide which books make the list? Would you need id to buy a Mills and Boon from their saucy series (I forget what that's called), but free to purchase some Henry Miller because it's "literature"?

Actually would be quite useful for teens seeking out saucy novels if they did carry some kind of warning sticker on the cover.

Elizabetth: please answer the questions I put to you don't ignore them. Thank you.

Oh good LS: As you say, anything which is currently illegal would clearly be banned. I'd also be inclined to have an age limit of 21 to get around the 'barely legal' issue. Anything else would be fine.

As far as professional porn goes I'd require that all people involved have appropriate age ID, receive monthly health checks (paid for by the porn companies), have industry standard contracts with the companies and require mandatory certification of all porn producers on this basis, be it for magazines, dvds or the internet. I'd also have a code of practice which companies undertake to adhere to (like other media codes of practice.

I'd also have a formal and confidential reporting mechanism which allows people within the industry to report companies, and a enforcement body (funded by a tax on porn companies) to enforce breaches of the either the certification or the code.

All internet sites would need to have this certificate and any failing to display it would be closed down. Amateur sites (like youporn.com) would be responsible for monitoring their own content and any complaints which are upheld against them would see them being closed down. DVD producers and magazine publishers would be treated similarly.

kittock - maybe a sticker that instead of saying "richard&judy good read" - just said "mumsnet filthy read"?

Now you're talking swedes

cestlavie, she will continue to ignore them because she can't answer them.

you asked similar questions to me, I had only skimmed the thread but hadn't seen.

she said i should find my own argument. but the quesitons have not been answered.

oh and elizabethh, here are some non-exploitative porn films:

and they are very explicit pornography

And another thing - without porn moving into the mainstream, the world would have been deprived of the career of cheeky Robin Asquith from the "Confessions..." series.

Mmmm - what a dreamboat...

www.stuart.cann.freeuk.com/robin_askwith.htm

cestlavie, good point wrt the age limit, I think the idea of 21 would be a very good start with the barely legal stuff.

Elizabetth, I know what bias and biased are, and it is not only money that provides a bias viewpiont. Madamez has said herself she has met people who have suffered at the hands of the porn industry, so is obviously not completely bias, whereas your viewpoint refuses to accept there may be something other than your perspective, which is biased.

But the thorny question remains:

What would you do do about porn that revolves around humiliating and degrading women?

Bangbros (as E said) for example.

I object to what porn can do to a marriage/previously healthy realtionship. Men can get more "involved" than they may have meant to; online porn is not "just porn" is can become interative and can lead to othwer activities.

It can cause no end of hurt and mistrust and can split people up.