to be surprised at how many Mumsnetters are fine with pornography?

[Elizabetth]

Particularly as porn has become so much more mainstream in the past few years, I'd have thought that people would be concerned about premature sexualisation of children. Also I'm surprised that so many women are fine with it given that the humiliation and degradation of women is the central theme of pornography. You only have to look at the titles to realise that.

No, OBM of course some people pretend but equally I think there are probably lots of pornstars out there who enjoy it too!

I want to go to bed but I can't stop observing. However, the time for posting anything of any great intellectual weight has definitely passed for me.

They film porn in the office below mine, maybe I could do a survey tomorrow?

And you know you could always take your own advice ELF -

"Sitting for an entire evening on mumsnet singing from the same song sheet will not make the blindest bit of difference"

This could equally apply to you and the other people arguing for porn.

No, I just think that there would be far more pratical ways of doing something about what you dislike; as Custy said, its an arguement on mumsnet that always ends the same - everybody sticking to their own opinions and the topic gets dull and ends, but nobody has moved.

OK, OBM, now you really get a sticker.

Come on custy. You must have read about women's pay inequality (to take just one example), and how it will take us 60 years to close the gap at the current rate of change? I quite agree that capitalism encourages exploitation, but of course women are exploited more keenly than men, because on the whole they have less power. This is not to say that there are not plenty of men who are also exploited.

not very surprised elf that the article wanks off on the fact that women are posting! Look at her, she's loving it.
But question its veracity. And suggest that if women are posting it's not necessarily for jolly, uncomplicated reasons.

But this is a skive from studying for me!

Tomorrow I will forget about it.

I probably will not appear on a porn thread for a long while; I was only intrigued with this thread due to you referring in the other you had started it.

As somebody has said somewhere WAY down the thread, you put your points on porn on a few porn threads (I havent looked) so it is probably a topic which sits more importantly to you than to me.

I'm not saying that is wrong or right, your preference.

it has been an interesting debate and a welcome change from my study book.

Elizabetth - I for one am always very cheered when reading your posts on this topic. I definitely come away feeling emboldened.

However, I have also been enlightened on certain aspects of this debate by posters coming from the other side of the argument. I haven't changed my overall attitude, but my views have certainly been tempered.

"pornography is sex - its paid for sex - its imaginary eutopian sex with perfect men and women. Its sexual entertainment. if i wanted candles dodgy music and lovehearts i would watch hallmark. but i dont i want to watch fucking for entertainment purposes."

It's still women being paid to pretend they are enjoying it, which is pretty Victorian when you think about it.

"if you argument is the subjugation of women in society this is a wider question - but again i dont think that women as a group are subjugated as much as i think that greed and money rule our capitalist society. You make it sound like there is some secret handshake betweek men to actively keep women down. Whilst i dont doubt that this happens in some quarters - perhaps the city - by and large the people who are subjugated in a capitalist society are poor people - matters not race or ability or gender."

Who do you think makes up the majority of the world's poor? Take a wild guess. Who do you think owns the majority of the world's wealth? Take another wild guess. If you haven't noticed that poverty is a gender issue you aren't paying attention.

"sex makes money - money equals power. the only way we could ever e sure that women actually like their highly paid fucking jobs is if we could guarentee that it was their choice of career over something else - as highly paid."

Well men could always stop discriminating against women in the workplace but of course that's another argument. Porn isn't that well paid though, it's another myth to make people feel better about their consumption of it.

onebatmother - I have not denied that there are not some women who are in porn films for reasons other than they wanted to.

I am just disputing that ALL women are in it because they are abused.

vvv - i couldnt agree more.

policy - shucks, thanks.

custy - you speak much sense, as you often do.

and yes, the dead-end immovable-ness of this topic is a bit rubbish isnt it? so i havnt convinced anyone to go into business with me making good hard female friendly porn then??

Elf - Exactly the point I think all are making. It's not fair to tar ALL the people who are in porn with the same brush. Same as there are a fair few disguisting people that enjoy the dark side of porn but there's no reason to say all men OR WOMEN who watch it are the same.

Porn removes love from sex. Without love, it becomes something sordid and degrading, imo. I guess I'm probably just an old fuddy-duddy by today's standards.

By the way, I never heard of women removing all their pubic hair! Why on earth would anyone want to do that? It's bad enough having to do a bikini line during the summer, but the whole lot?? Doesn't it itch? Just curious.

clapham why do you think that there are lots of pornstars who enjoy it? Because they 'tell' you?

the industry has a whole subsection devoted to 'real-life' interviews with pornstars who are paid to say how much they enjoyed filming it. often they are the 'special feature' supporting the main bit.

this is because porn producers know that even their best customers have occasional doubts - hmm.. was she really enjoying that mouth/c**t/arse triple penetration, she sounded like she was kind of, you know, in pain.. kind of a choking/sobbing sound.

Oh but hey! - I must have been imagining it. Here she is telling us that she never normally comes when performing but this time, you know, she really did!

sheesh.

I was under the impression that female porn stars commanded more money than their male counterparts. Certainly from the limited knowledge I have from the ex-colleagues who entered into it.

I should also point out that the men in these films are enjoying (or not as the case may be) it as much as the women.

Most porn films are not shot in one take. The man is required to keep up his performance for extended periods and there is also the aspect of ejaculating on cue. I think the arguments against porn in some quarters are over-simplified and lacking in perspective.

I think the arguments for porn in some quarters are over-simplified and lacking in perspective.

80s mum - I find it itches if it grows too long (although I don't remove it all)

I agree that porn is not "making love" that is what is reserved for a loving couple.

Sex is porn and one-night stands etc.

80smum have you never heard of a brazilian wax? where all of the pubic hair is waxed off?

sex without love is sordid and degrading? waht always? thats a very sad pov imo.

ive had no strings, no love sex which i found to be wholesome, fun and exciting. empowering even. some of the memories make me all tingly just thinking of them. are you saying that makes me a pervert? or am i deluded and degraded?

personally, i think that the view stated abouve is in fact prudish and, as i said earlier, sad and dangerous.

Ouch!! I've heard the term but confess I've never really thought about what it might be. Now I know! But it must be agony, surely?!

Well I stayed up well past my bedtime

Nighty night all

VVV - i am loving you right now.

I don't wax! OUCH!, bad enough waxing the legs... haha

FWIW - I see nothing wrong with having sex - whether a one night stand or in porn.

yes, bedtime calling.
no doubt ill be up most of the night with ds3 and his temp/cough/poorliness (as last 2 nights).what im doing here talking to you lot, i dont know

"I was under the impression that female porn stars commanded more money than their male counterparts. Certainly from the limited knowledge I have from the ex-colleagues who entered into it."

They still don't earn very much, considering what they have to do for it, so I'm not really seeing what you're getting at.

"I should also point out that the men in these films are enjoying (or not as the case may be) it as much as the women."

Well the men aren't being penetrated for hours at a time or having to wrap their gobs around penises for more hours on end so it's probably less taxing on their bodies.

"Most porn films are not shot in one take. The man is required to keep up his performance for extended periods and there is also the aspect of ejaculating on cue. I think the arguments against porn in some quarters are over-simplified and lacking in perspective. "

In what way. You haven't described anything there that undermines the anti-porn argument.

bbg

'Well the men aren't being penetrated for hours at a time or having to wrap their gobs around penises for more hours on end so it's probably less taxing on their bodies.'

Im sure their 'bits' are getting as much wear and tear and chaffing the womens, with all that thrusting in and out of fanjos and mouths.