To despair that people still vote Tory given their track record and outright dishonesty?

[flashbac]

I don't get it. Its depressing. We deserve better than this surely? Why give them the green light? What kind of society do we want? One where liars get our approval?

Honestly the last Labour shadow cabinet were unable to fight their way out of a paper bag. They were a disaster. Those words were from Alan Johnson....

They couldn’t say what they stood for re Brexit, they hung on to Corbyn for years and only today McDonnell was suggesting he needed to come back. They really don’t get it and as someone else said they are the gift to the Tories.

So, do I think they would do things based on hindsight and roll out the vaccine programme the way it has happened. Not in a million years.

They are a complete non entity and I am hearing that Starmer is about to fire Ashworth and Dodds.

At least Boris had a clear message, get Brexit done and that resonated with the electorate. LP were flip flopping around no fancy putting a arch Remainers in Hartlepool when 70% of the voters voted for Leave.

What a ludicrous idea yet Labour did it and wondered why they have lost.

Idiots. I would love to see a strong Opposition, it keeps everyone on their toes. I do wonder whether the LP will split now. There is no chance of them winning the next GE or even the one after and they are in danger of becoming a laughing stock.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

I hate them too, I could never vote for them, they are an absolute shower of shite and the worst government in living memory, my mum in her 60s says the same.

So what does that say about the opposition? That an incompetent government full of liars looks a better option? We have had years of the tories now, wtf have labour been doing in that time? Labour have been absolutely fucking useless since Corbyn, I had hopes for Starmer but other than being reasonable at PMQs (which you'd expect from a lawyer), what has he done? I have no idea what labour's policies actually are. I don't know what they stand for anymore and I don't think Starmer and the idiots who surround him do either.

I've always voted labour but until they can tell me what a woman is they won't be getting a vote from me. I totally understand women on here who will vote Tory because ironically they seem to be the only party who have any concept of women's rights, who thought anyone would ever write that sentence?! I can't vote Tory myself but I get it.

I'm furious at labour, they have been so crap for so long that a fucking clown like Boris has appeared to be a better option to many people. Labour are a huge reason as to why we have such a crap government. We have no opposition, I won't vote for anyone right now and I feel completely politically homeless.

This in every respect.

Honestly the last Labour shadow cabinet were unable to fight their way out of a paper bag. They were a disaster. Those words were from Alan Johnson....

When you have had the likes of Dianne Abbott in your cabinet you are onto a loser.

People like to be led by a liar and a cheater. They like being laughed at by those ruling them. I can’t think of any other explanation.

I have no choice but to vote conservative. The alternative is becoming more and more left and women will be left with no voice with them in charge. If labour became a bit more middle/left they'd get more votes.

Now Abbott is voted in time and time again by a huge majority. If I was being rude I would ask why? She is clearly not well and the mind boggles at her being Home Secretary. We would have been in clear and present danger.

Luckily Labour were kicked into the long grass and for that we need to be very very grateful.

Rhow. There are more than two options on your ballot paper. Stop kidding yourself. You voted conservative because you wanted to. Not voting would be better than voting for a manipulative liar who breaks the law

The remoaners in the Labour Party have been made to grovel, but they need to apologise - really apologise - before the party can move forward. We Labour supporters in the North are bitter about what they tried to do, and - as Hartlepool shows - they paid the price.

Tang - have you seen much benefit from BREXIT yet?!

And don’t say vaccines. We always could have opted out of the EU vaccine procurement whether we were still in the EU or not...!

@Orangelizard
The Tory party might not care much about women's rights either but at least they know (and have been prepared to say publicly) what a woman is.

Have they though ? I don't remember any of them being asked the question ?

The Labour Party are dead in the water.

Which is a shame as we need a decent opposition.

Hands up who can remember when we last had one of those.

[quote frumpety]@Orangelizard
The Tory party might not care much about women's rights either but at least they know (and have been prepared to say publicly) what a woman is.

Have they though ? I don't remember any of them being asked the question ?[/quote]
They don't dispute the definition of women and seem to be quite comfortable to have women in the leadership.

If Labour could clearly acknowledge the Oxford English Dictionary definition of women, it would be a start. However that probably wouldn't go well with recruitment of Women Officers in the Labour Party .....

And why does the question need asking ffs.

I think Abbot is voted in again and again because she is probably a good MP, you don't have to agree with all her politics to appreciate that.

They don't dispute the definition of women and seem to be quite comfortable to have women in the leadership.

Hard to tell if they are never asked. You are spot on about Leadership though, twice this country has had a female PM and each time they have been Conservative. Why have Labour never had a female leader ?

It’s absolutely depressing that any (usually labour) voter posts moaning about votes in a fair, even, independent DEMOCRACY makes me sick. We are so so lucky to be able to have a free vote yet it doesn’t count because it didn’t go the way YOU wanted?! Discuss and debate policies and current affairs and mistakes and the past? Absolutely. Telling people they’re wrong for not voting for your (also proven bullshit, lying coverups eg the iraq war or rotherham) lot. Tell the groomed girls that their leaders got approval..... Exactly.
Labour are finished.

It was a terrible turn out here. About 30% bothered to vote... that’s awful.

@19lottie82

I live in Scotland and a lot of people will vote for them to try and keep out the SNP. I’m voting labour to do the same in my constituency, but would both Tory over SNP, without a shadow of a doubt.

I am the same but opposite. I voted labour to try and keep snp out in my area (sadly failed but hey ho!). I would normally have voted conservative but would take any unionist party over SNP!

OP my views align with traditional conservative values. I assume your views align with the opposite. In the same way you don’t agree with or understand my way of thinking, I would feel the same about yours. I find though when I speak to people with polar opposite views and listen to them, I might not agree but your mind is opened to new things. I would like a Tory government but I think it’s so important to have a strong opposition. Labour in England are failing at that right now as are the tories in Scotland. No one will make the right decision all of the time but a good opposition will keep you on your toes and make you try harder. So whilst my views are pretty anti labour, I would like to see a strong Labour Party for the benefit of the country. It is a shame you don’t feel that way about the conservatives. We are not the terrible fascist people that the media would have you believe - we are very normal and nice people

I think I'm the only person I know that even voted!!!

@flashbac

I don't get it. Its depressing. We deserve better than this surely? Why give them the green light? What kind of society do we want? One where liars get our approval?

We all lie

All

I am sure you are really an adult and know this already

Show me a party that hasn't told lies I think you would struggle.

There are so many reasons why Labour and the labour voters who post here are just so out of touch, they really don't get it....no amount of so called debate on here will change it....

People have evolved and Labour hasn't.KS banging on about fff...ing wallpaper for a week....and burying their heads denying Iraq, Rotherham, Jewish discrimination, womens identity, historical incompetence , utter inability to run an economy or balance the books.

When Boris goes people will still vote Tory because they are voting on a bigger picture they don't want a tormented party, cow towing to Len McClusky frightened to offer policies because the truth is they don't know what we want, never mind what they want or how to deliver it.

KS can wring his heads and make his promises to reform, labour underestimate people and the people are not stupid.

@SinkGirl you specified "European nationalised railways". Since when was the Hong Kong Metro a European company?

The railways are not privatised in any true sense. They are merely outsourced, just like bin collections are. BR (despite being nationalised) was given a huge amount of freedom to run the railway. It was just handed its annual subsidy and told to get on with it. These days on the other hand we have civil servants micromanaging every last bit of the franchises. It was those civil servants who signed contracts for new trains on the ECML and GWML which left Hitachi laughing all of the way to the bank. The state meddling in the railway is what is causing the problems.

And again, 22 out of 30 companies aren't necessarily making money for European states. Abellio Scotrail was running at a loss and being subsidised by the Dutch. Margins are wafer-thin at any rate, if you take the private operators out of the system you won't suddenly balance the books, you need wholesale reform of the way in which it is run to achieve a more efficient operation. You won't get that while it provides a civil servant job creation scheme.

*We all lie

All

I am sure you are really an adult and know this already*

That's some pretty convoluted mental gymnastics you're doing there. Jesus.