To think that Conservatives don't actually care about 'red wall' voters beyond getting their vote

[Tuesdaysintheazores]

But people who live there and are going to be voting Conservative obviously do feel that they are the best people to represent them. Very interested to hear from people who live in red wall areas. AIBU?

YABU = Conservatives actually do care about these people now

YANBU = Conservatives just trying to get the votes and seats

[bellropes]

Starmer is just another Kinnock, pleasant but useless.

[Mytiredeyeshaveseenenough]

They care as much as Labour ever did and unlike his predecessor, our current Tory MP was actually born in the area.
The area wanted to vote Brexit, initially as more of a protest vote but Labour cocked that up so much they pushed people to the Tories who did what the voters wanted. And here we are.

[deliciouschilli]

There seems to be no will from the Labour party to discuss their policies.

If you ask about their stance on womens rights you come up against a wall of silence.

[TeacupDrama]

it is also about relatability, Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage ( as much as I dislike him) as well both give the impression that they could sit down for a pint with a group of car mechanics or builders without making the builders or mechanics feel small, however you just don't get that impression from the Starmers, Nandy's and Corbyn's that instead of having a laugh and agreeing with you they would just tell you why you were wrong an evening like that is never going to end well

[Onetoomuch]

@JackieWeaverHandforthCouncil Absolutely spot on.
And this constant bloody refrain from the media that labour don't listen to their core voters - where has that come from ? And the glee that labour are going to lose Hartlepool, just a self fulfilling prophecy to influence wavering voters.
The difference is that the Tories promise loads but fail to deliver although I've read that they are starting to pour investment into the north east now they have a few local mps. Just bribery.
Some labour councils have been complacent and inept but northern areas were massively hit by austerity, more so than affluent ones in the south. A lot of voters don't have a clue how much funding was cut and is still to come, they just see it as labour incompetence not that their hands have been tied. Hence we now have a tory dominated council and invisible tory mp who are no better.
The amount of what is essentially racist crap spewed out in the comments section of our local paper and facebook page is shocking, mainly directed at the asian community, constant insinuations that somehow the labour party shows favouritism towards them which are unfounded. Why can't views like that be held up for what they are rather than pussyfooting round them, making excuses that no ones listening to them.
Like Brenda from Bognor who embarrassed Gordon Brown, she was a bigot, why excuse her

[Lordamighty]

Like Brenda from Bognor who embarrassed Gordon Brown, she was a bigot, why excuse her

Perfect example of why Labour are doing so badly. Instead of listening to people’s concerns just label them as bigots, racists & transphobic.

[HermioneWeasley]

YANBU but Labour don’t care either - took them completely for granted and treat their concerns with contempt- look at the reaction from Labour to losing the election and those seats - they said electorate were wrong, thick, not pure enough.

People might feel Tories don’t really care about them but having active and visible contempt for your core voters is even more off putting

[randomlyLostInWales]

Starmer is just another Kinnock, pleasant but useless

I always thought he did a lot of work to get labour into a good position - one that subsequent leaders built on John Smith and then Blair built on.

I get the impression currently that that's not happening it's blame the media blame the electorate dimiss or ignore policy concerns - women's right erosion being one of the big ones. Maybe they'll turn a corner soon.

[Flumpaphone]

It's part of the problem now though, there is no ability to have a genuine debate without being shouted down by the other side.

Previous posters are correct that calling people thick and bigots will not change any hearts and minds. However it's on both sides. In the comments section of our local paper the abuse metered out to anyone who expresses a left leaning (or even centrist) opinion on anything is horrendous. No wonder people are running for the hills.

[Boondia]

I read an article interviewing people in Hartlepool and there was some anger about their MP disregarding their brexit vote and a feeling of neglect from Labour. I think they probably feel taken for granted, a couple of people missed Tony Blair.

Tbh if you are in a deprived area that’s been deprived under various hues of government then you aren’t going to be chomping at the bit to vote for a Labour party that you felt ignored you or took your vote for granted,

I agree with the poster who said that being “cared” for in a patronising paternalistic way is probably not edifying for those on the receiving end of it and the poster who pointed out that people won’t want to vote for people who don’t like them.

I don’t think the tories necessarily particularly care about those people, but they don’t actively hate them. Spend some time btl on the guardian and the seething rage towards anyone who has votes a different way is something to behold. Now obviously that’s not all of Labour but if you are ex-labour and you read the Guardian you are going to feel a bit miffed at how all these people seem to believe you are utterly evil for voting tory, or why throw away your vote by voting Lid Dem or Green, you should be voting Labour if you don’t want the tories to get in.

It’s the use of shaming instead trying to talk people around to your perspective in a calm and considered manner, proper political engagement. I think labour supporters on social media probably do more damage than the actual parliamentary party. While of course simultaneously claiming to be caring compassionate and openminded.

Personally i think I’ve voted for all major parties at some point in local or national elections.

[Tuesdaysintheazores]

It's part of the problem now though, there is no ability to have a genuine debate without being shouted down by the other side.

Previous posters are correct that calling people thick and bigots will not change any hearts and minds. However it's on both sides. In the comments section of our local paper the abuse metered out to anyone who expresses a left leaning (or even centrist) opinion on anything is horrendous. No wonder people are running for the hills.

Couldn't agree more. Nothing is going to change until proper grown up conversations can be had, with listening on both sides and preferably imo a move by everyone towards the centre. I truly believe people don't want extremes, be that far left or far right.

[Tuesdaysintheazores]

It’s the use of shaming instead trying to talk people around to your perspective in a calm and considered manner, proper political engagement. I think labour supporters on social media probably do more damage than the actual parliamentary party. While of course simultaneously claiming to be caring compassionate and openminded.

Agree. Same with SM posters on the far right who post racist comments and the Union Jack waving angry people. I'm sure this doesn't represent most people who are choosing to vote Conservative

[Tuesdaysintheazores]

it is also about relatability, Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage ( as much as I dislike him) as well both give the impression that they could sit down for a pint with a group of car mechanics or builders without making the builders or mechanics feel small, however you just don't get that impression from the Starmers, Nandy's and Corbyn's that instead of having a laugh and agreeing with you they would just tell you why you were wrong an evening like that is never going to end well

While I get this, how many women would want to sit in the pub with Farage or Johnson? I know I wouldn't. Likewise disabled people, immigrants, and probably lots of others

SecretSpAD I agree Labour should target the SW

[Boondia]

Yeah tbh I would rather have a pint with Stamer but I probably wouldn’t vote for him. And agree about your point on the far right as well. It’s all a bit mad these days.

[JustAnotherPoster00]

Usual MN politics thread boohoo I used to vote for a progressive party but now because of my obsession with what's in people's underwear and my misunderstanding of the word woke I'm going to vote for a party that's been in power for a decade and has done nothing but make inequality grow while corruptly enriching their mates but that's the party for me, it's nothing if not predictable

[Boondia]

Sex based rights are there to protect women, I don’t think that should just be dismissed as some sort of whinge, there are women who for very good reasons need single sex services/facilities.

I would love to live in a world where there was no violence against women but we don’t live in that world so the protections and rights women currently have need to stand. You may not care but many women do.

[HermioneWeasley]

Well done @JustAnotherPoster00 for illustrating the contempt for ordinary voters’ concerns so beautifully.

You won’t shame or bully people into voting for you

[SeamstressfromTreacleMineRoad]

@justsaymaybe

I don't believe any political party particularly cares about much beyond gaining power. Some will do good things with it and some will do bad things with it, most will do both.

Labour has driven people away rather than people suddenly becoming Conservative. I believe it's mostly a protest vote. Labour are way too interested in identity politics. Branding people as racist and transphobic without actually listening to what people are saying.

Several Labour candidates said they literally didn't want votes from gender critical people who don't believe transwomen are women. So why would I vote for them?

That sort of thing is why Labour is not winning.

I've voted Labour in every election, apart from the last one where I just didn't bother as both sides were equally rubbish in different ways, but they won't be getting my vote again until they stop bending towards activists on Twitter.

This pretty much sums up my feelings. Why would I vote for a party that tells me that I can't call myself a mother..? So that's Labour, Lib-Dems and Greens out - and there's no way I'm voting Tory, so I'm effectively disenfranchised...

[VladmirsPoutine]

I rue the day when white people and black liberals discovered the word 'woke'.

In anycase I think it has to do with Brexit. It's been a shit storm but hasn't had an impact on them directly so therefore they view it as a success.

[NobodyPuttsBabyinCorner]

Corbyn.... He utterly ruined Labour in the North, Starmer hasn't made any sort of impact as he's too vanilla.

Rightly/wrongly this is an area of the country that is proud of the armed services and throwbacks to the 'good old days'. Corbyn's pathetic responses to his perceived terrorist sympathies will take years to undo. Naunce doesn't carry well across the media and it doesn't matter that he had every right to attend dinners hosted by friends of Palestine or he's correct to say both sides commit atrocities. He was seen as someone who would always side with the 'other side' a professional devil's advocate as such.

That sort of mentality is suicidal in area of the country where people want the old times back as they've seen their industry turn to dust over the decades. They want action, not some argues like a Guardian columnist.

Labour need a leader that isn't afraid to hurt anyone, stop chasing all the votes, it's getting them nowhere.

[Tuesdaysintheazores]

Why would I vote for a party that tells me that I can't call myself a mother.
I've never seen them say this but interested where you heard that

[Hotankles]

@Lordamighty

Identity politics are killing the Labour vote in their traditional heartlands but they appear to be too stupid to do anything about it.
Twitter likes are not votes.

This. Labour told women members to leave if they did not agree with their identity ideology - or kicked them out. It hasn’t been forgotten. The worst part is there is no back peddling what so ever. No ‘oh shit we fucked up’ .. Labours eye is firmly on the 2024 election when we will have a wave of woke voters. They are just coasting till then.

[Tanith]

It’s so depressing to see people still using national party politics for local elections.

Forget whatever it is that the national parties are doing for now. This isn’t a general election and you’re not voting for them.

You’re voting for the people who are responsible for your local spending and services, for the people who oversee planning and housing, bin collections, schools and services.

Are you happy with your current council? Is it doing a good job? If it is are, then vote the councillors back in. Why get rid of a perfectly good council?

I may say that mine is not. It’s a corrupt, inept, failing council seeped in cronyism that has brought it to the brink of bankruptcy.
It has allowed the building of expensive estates that no-one wanted on former greenbelt land by changing its status.
It’s allowed our roads to fall into disrepair.
Ofsted has failed its children’s services many times.

Why would I vote for a continuation?

[Hotankles]

@NobodyPuttsBabyinCorner

Corbyn.... He utterly ruined Labour in the North, Starmer hasn't made any sort of impact as he's too vanilla.

Rightly/wrongly this is an area of the country that is proud of the armed services and throwbacks to the 'good old days'. Corbyn's pathetic responses to his perceived terrorist sympathies will take years to undo. Naunce doesn't carry well across the media and it doesn't matter that he had every right to attend dinners hosted by friends of Palestine or he's correct to say both sides commit atrocities. He was seen as someone who would always side with the 'other side' a professional devil's advocate as such.

That sort of mentality is suicidal in area of the country where people want the old times back as they've seen their industry turn to dust over the decades. They want action, not some argues like a Guardian columnist.

Labour need a leader that isn't afraid to hurt anyone, stop chasing all the votes, it's getting them nowhere.

Yes this!

[SmokedDuck]

AdventureIsWaiting

Yes, totally.

I think what many people don't remember is that before Thatcher, one of the big concerns of the Conservative Party was social stability. That's a very conservative value.

And working class voters also tend to be attracted to social arrangements that lead to stability. Strong family structures, strong neighbourhoods, localism. People depend on friends and neighbours they have known over long periods of time, there is intergenerational care, etc.

They are less likely to care about individualistic expressions, who is "valid", and being oppressed by not being able to pick up and go live and work in another country.

The LP, in that sense, used to be conservative, but it's now the party of the nowheres, professionals, people who are happy to have their extended family spread across three continents and to pay for plane tickets, childcare, eldercare, and just want their kids to be able to go to university wherever. That is to say, it's liberal and bourgeoisie.

What I can't figure out is why anyone would think Red Wall voters would be interested?