To think that Conservatives don't actually care about 'red wall' voters beyond getting their vote

[Tuesdaysintheazores]

But people who live there and are going to be voting Conservative obviously do feel that they are the best people to represent them. Very interested to hear from people who live in red wall areas. AIBU?

YABU = Conservatives actually do care about these people now

YANBU = Conservatives just trying to get the votes and seats

[the80sweregreat]

A lot of my family and friends are conservatives with a small c and just unhappy at how the Labour Party went from being centre left to one they don't recognize anymore.
I have never voted conservative in my life , but I can see how this has happened and ordinary working class folk have felt very let down by all the political parties, but the conservatives have managed to tap into how they they are feeling and has values they feel represent them.
I know this won't go down well on mumsnet ( which is more left leaning generally) but this is how I've seen it play out. The vaccine roll out has been a big boost to them too and they have given money to the NHS and now stopped austerity.
I know it's all smoke and mirrors myself , but others only see what they want to see and believe a lot that is written in the more right wing press where the more controversial things that have happened are airbrushed away it seems.
Labour either needs to rebrand itself or accept that their values are not what the majority want.
A new leader might help them too.
I find it sad that the Labour Party has lost its way over the decades and new thinking and new ideas seem beyond them almost.

[Tuesdaysintheazores]

I think Starmer has a mountain to climb undoing the mess Corbyn created. He can't please the Remain voters and the red wall voters he's lost at the same time. He has I think tried to get rid of some of the far left but again he has to manage the whole party. I think he can do it but it will take years

[JustAnotherPoster00]

I know this won't go down well on mumsnet ( which is more left leaning generally)

It really isn't

[VladmirsPoutine]

I think a lot of people dislike Corbyn because he genuinely thinks all people are equal and should be treated as such. I think it really does rile certain people that for example immigrants can have opportunities similar to the native populace.

[SmokedDuck]

@Tuesdaysintheazores

it is also about relatability, Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage ( as much as I dislike him) as well both give the impression that they could sit down for a pint with a group of car mechanics or builders without making the builders or mechanics feel small, however you just don't get that impression from the Starmers, Nandy's and Corbyn's that instead of having a laugh and agreeing with you they would just tell you why you were wrong an evening like that is never going to end well

While I get this, how many women would want to sit in the pub with Farage or Johnson? I know I wouldn't. Likewise disabled people, immigrants, and probably lots of others

SecretSpAD I agree Labour should target the SW

Oh, I don't know. I'm not sure most people really think like that, "As a woman I wouldn't go have a drink with so and so because I don't like his policies."

I've seen interviews with Farage where he came across as quite personable, though I think he'd be boring.

Starmer I think is actually quite a nice man, but I suspect many people might feel his conversation would be above them. I don't think that's necessarily true, but he seems buttoned up.

BJ however would probably be able to have a chat with anyone and he can be very charming and funny when he decides he wants to be. If I was going to go on a pub crawl I'd take him of the three.

[TeacupDrama]

maybe Brenda was a bigot but nothing was gained by saying so; it just ensured that Labour not only lost Brenda's vote but almost certainly her friends, neighbours and families vote
A question about race or immigration may come from a racist bigoted perspective but equally it may not, while immigration may be overall positive it doesn't mean there are no negatives and the people experiencing the negatives aren't necessarily the same ones that benefit from immigration,

just like anything else that is " swings and roundabouts" some people lose out some people gain, the ones that lose out can't be expected to be thrilled for the ones that gain and magnaminously accept their loss then they are already struggling

[Hotankles]

@Tanith

It’s so depressing to see people still using national party politics for local elections.

Forget whatever it is that the national parties are doing for now. This isn’t a general election and you’re not voting for them.

You’re voting for the people who are responsible for your local spending and services, for the people who oversee planning and housing, bin collections, schools and services.

Are you happy with your current council? Is it doing a good job? If it is are, then vote the councillors back in. Why get rid of a perfectly good council?

I may say that mine is not. It’s a corrupt, inept, failing council seeped in cronyism that has brought it to the brink of bankruptcy.
It has allowed the building of expensive estates that no-one wanted on former greenbelt land by changing its status.
It’s allowed our roads to fall into disrepair.
Ofsted has failed its children’s services many times.

Why would I vote for a continuation?

Yes for us it’s conservative who hold the seat. Who by the way was the only canvasser who was happy talk to me about women’s sex based rights and where they stood within them. There was only one other (Labour) and they wouldn’t touch the topic with a barge poll. I’ll be voting for conservatives.

[Tuesdaysintheazores]

SmokedDuck I find Farage creepy and would never go for a drink with him or even want to be in the same room.

Boris Johnson would probably try to shag you at the end of the evening.

Keir Starmer seems like he would be a bit quiet and maybe hard work.

I would go for a drink with Angela Rayner though, she'd be a fun night out I think

[SmokedDuck]

@TeacupDrama

maybe Brenda was a bigot but nothing was gained by saying so; it just ensured that Labour not only lost Brenda's vote but almost certainly her friends, neighbours and families vote
A question about race or immigration may come from a racist bigoted perspective but equally it may not, while immigration may be overall positive it doesn't mean there are no negatives and the people experiencing the negatives aren't necessarily the same ones that benefit from immigration,

just like anything else that is " swings and roundabouts" some people lose out some people gain, the ones that lose out can't be expected to be thrilled for the ones that gain and magnaminously accept their loss then they are already struggling

Something that is consistency missed by those who complain that the red wall voters are just too conservative is that also, they were of the left.

Movement of labour was, and always has been, a significant leftist concern. As is protection of industry.

I mean at a basic level the left emerged as a response to increased globalism that meant that agriculture and industry were in competition with that of other counties, and the subsequent move of workers no longer able to make a living on the land to be exploited in factories.

It's the Labour Party that has moved significantly to the right, and to some extent that is even true of the LP under Corbyn which could still not get it's head around these traditional leftist perspectives. (Though actually I think Corbyn himself understood and believed himself in that perspective which is why he tended to spport Brexit.)

[SmokedDuck]

@Tuesdaysintheazores

SmokedDuck I find Farage creepy and would never go for a drink with him or even want to be in the same room.

Boris Johnson would probably try to shag you at the end of the evening.

Keir Starmer seems like he would be a bit quiet and maybe hard work.

I would go for a drink with Angela Rayner though, she'd be a fun night out I think

Well, I would personally rather have a drink with Starmer than Farage, but I don't think that is a universal choice.

I really wouldn't care if Boris made a play, I am happy to put him off. I'd bet he'd buy the drinks.

[the80sweregreat]

@Tuesdaysintheazores

I think Starmer has a mountain to climb undoing the mess Corbyn created. He can't please the Remain voters and the red wall voters he's lost at the same time. He has I think tried to get rid of some of the far left but again he has to manage the whole party. I think he can do it but it will take years

He has a huge mountain to climb , but I don't think his up too this particular job.
Wrong man in my opinion , but I'm hard pushed to know who would do a better job of it as well !
The tories have managed to push all the political parties into a brick wall by winning over the more traditional Labour voters with clever tactics.

[the80sweregreat]

Up to, not too.

[Onetoomuch]

@the80sweregreat they haven't stopped austerity. Our local council still has to lose 40 million. Services are already cut to the bone.

[the80sweregreat]

[quote Onetoomuch]@the80sweregreat they haven't stopped austerity. Our local council still has to lose 40 million. Services are already cut to the bone.[/quote]
I know. That's what I was saying in my thread , the press will tell people that austerity is over because of the spending they had to do for covid without the actual facts about the spending plans in real terms.
The money spent on covid , furlough etc etc will have to be paid back by more cuts :(

[TrickyD]

If the Red Wall new conservatives get shafted, no sympathy here. More fools them for voting so stupidly.

[Onetoomuch]

@Lordamighty she was being racist. Throw away remarks like that added up make a country seem hostile to people who are different. Do you feel the same way about BJ calling black people 'piccanninies,' gay people 'tank topped bumboys' or comparing women in muslim dress to letter boxes. Thing is if you are xenophobic, anti-gay or -muslim, you won't feel too shocked, you'll laugh it off and minimize it. You'll also think 'that guy's listening to me.'
I think there's a lot of patronising clap trap about the northern w/c. Like we all live on coronation street with a shared sense of community, know our neighbours etc - like hell we do ! Most people I know don't care about politics, find it dry and boring. You ask the average person what each party stands for beyond 'getting brexit done,' (tories) pulling yourself up by the bootstraps (tories), supporting benefit scroungers (labour) and providing free broadband (labour) they don't have a clue. They see headlines and that's it.
We'll probably have an indefinite tory government, with just reincarnations every couple of years. Essentially a one party state...you could have the most corrupt manipulative tory government ever but no labour doesn't listen.....it can't win, so many people demand different things of them, labour voters will spoil their vote on principle because of trans issues for example yet tory voters hold their noses whatever and never deviate however disgusted they are. Their core voters are loyal and that's the difference.

[FourTeaFallOut]

Well, I'm sure the withdrawal of sympathy will make a striking change to the usual status quo.

[Tuesdaysintheazores]

I really wouldn't care if Boris made a play, I am happy to put him off. I'd bet he'd buy the drinks

Surely he'd be getting one of his mates to pay!

[Alsohuman]

an awful lot of the time it's a case of young, left leaning voters moving out of these areas and into the cities chasing jobs, leaving older, more affluent and right leaning retirees with very different priorities behind.

It isn’t. In many “red wall” constituencies voting Labour was like a religion. There aren’t many affluent retirees in places like Hartlepool.

[Msmcc1212]

Obvs. This is from a talk at a conference:

Dominic Cummings 2017

‘What’s one of the one of the core problems of the Tory party brand going back decades?’

Audience member: NHS

‘The NHS, and people think (and by the way, I think most people are right), the Tory party is run by people who basically don’t care about people like me. That’s what most people have thought about the Tory party for decades. I know a lot of Tory MPs and I’m sad to say the public is basically correct. Tory MPs don’t care about these poor people, they don’t care about the NHS’

The Tory party have always stood for the status quo. Meaning ‘rich man in his castle, poor man at his gate’. Have never wanted equality, equal opportunities or socioeconomic mobility. They want to keep their privilege and those of their peers. No interest or empathy for others. Cameron was slightly more empathetic because of his personal experience but still lacked any integrity or backbone - said he’d stay and sort things out whatever the Brexit vote, then whistled his way off to earn loads of money from having been PM, leaving us with the most arrogant, self-serving, incompetent, egotistical, sociopath I think we’ve ever had who could even be arsed to attend cobra meetings with a global pandemic clearly in action. ... and breathe... I could go on but I’m boring myself and nothing can be done until the next election.

[OooPourUsACupLove]

@TeacupDrama

it is also about relatability, Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage ( as much as I dislike him) as well both give the impression that they could sit down for a pint with a group of car mechanics or builders without making the builders or mechanics feel small, however you just don't get that impression from the Starmers, Nandy's and Corbyn's that instead of having a laugh and agreeing with you they would just tell you why you were wrong an evening like that is never going to end well

The irony being that Johnson and Farage's "chumminess" actually comes from a place of not respecting people enough to be honest with them. They stick on a personae and say whatever they think their audience wants to hear because they know it's got no connection to what they really think and intend to do. Literally anything that comes up they will smile, agree and ignore.

The Labour side, unfortunately, care enough about the voters to get angry with them. Yes it's patronising and wrong, but I honestly think it shows more genuine respect than the faux chumminess.

[DynamoKev]

[quote Onetoomuch]@JackieWeaverHandforthCouncil Absolutely spot on.
And this constant bloody refrain from the media that labour don't listen to their core voters - where has that come from ? And the glee that labour are going to lose Hartlepool, just a self fulfilling prophecy to influence wavering voters.
The difference is that the Tories promise loads but fail to deliver although I've read that they are starting to pour investment into the north east now they have a few local mps. Just bribery.
Some labour councils have been complacent and inept but northern areas were massively hit by austerity, more so than affluent ones in the south. A lot of voters don't have a clue how much funding was cut and is still to come, they just see it as labour incompetence not that their hands have been tied. Hence we now have a tory dominated council and invisible tory mp who are no better.
The amount of what is essentially racist crap spewed out in the comments section of our local paper and facebook page is shocking, mainly directed at the asian community, constant insinuations that somehow the labour party shows favouritism towards them which are unfounded. Why can't views like that be held up for what they are rather than pussyfooting round them, making excuses that no ones listening to them.
Like Brenda from Bognor who embarrassed Gordon Brown, she was a bigot, why excuse her [/quote]
Gillian Duffy from Rochdale. In what way was she a bigot?
Gordon Brown didn't think so - or at least not after he realised he'd accidently told the nation what he thought.
He went back to her house and apologised to her personally.

[Brainwave89]

I come originally from West Bromwich, which had been Labour since the 1920s. It now, amazingly has two Tory MPs! For years and years Labour did nothing for their supporters, and they still aren't. Outside of Kier Starmer I cannot name one Labour member of the shadow cabinet and I cannot identify a single Labour policy I would favour. Meanwhile, the new Tory MPs in West Bromwich are desperate to keep their seats. They are all over local issues such as transport, policing, housing etc like a rash and are building a significant local profile. People are debating these issues, and they are building momentum. There is a long way to go to the next election, but if Labour cannot win in West Bromwich, it cannot win anywhere.

[the80sweregreat]

Tory voters are loyal. They can air brush anything away and people think that they are the only party capable of running the country.
If there was a general election tomorrow the conservatives would win it and probably gain even more seats than before.
It's time the other parties realized this and did something about it rather than hand wringing or trying to score cheap points about wallpaper ( which is important, but not seen as that important by the average Tory voter)

[TheGoogleMum]

I live in a red wall turned blue area. It seems the conservatives are considered more 'british and proud' and people like that. They see labour as wasteful with money and too keen to reward people on benefits. Labour voters are seen as unemployed lazy people! (I got accused of being lazy and unemployed last general election for being pro Labour when actually I'm an nhs worker). It's silly but it's what I've seen