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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that a Rape Crisis centre should not have a transwoman CEO?

999 replies

ArabellaScott · 03/05/2021 16:18

Mridhul Wadhwa has just been appointed CEO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis. The job was advertised as for women only. Mridhul is a transwoman (born male) without a Gender Recognition Certificate.

AIBU to think that women survivors of rape and sexual violence should be able to have a female only space?

theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2021/05/new-boss-for-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
Whythesadface · 03/05/2021 17:02

I am very much only women are woman.
However if a Transwoman states they are trans and acknowledges this and has 15 years of working to protect woman in a need of help.
Protects their space from being invaded in their hour of need and maybe can also provide separate help for Transwomen, then I'd back this person for the job.

Graffitiqueen · 03/05/2021 17:02

@BetterKateThanNever

I think she was an excellent choice for CEO, best of luck to her.

And by the way, @Graffitiqueen, sometimes people do orgasm during rape and sexual assault. It doesn't invalidated them, their experience or what they do after. People who have been raped are not inappropriate.

I what way did I say the person who has been raped is inappropriate?! 🙄you need to work on your reading comprehension.

Yes thanks I do know it happens and it's involuntary and doesn't invalidate or being rape.

What I do find inappropriate and suspect is a male who has deceived their way into a rape crisis centre mentioning it in a press article.

mindutopia · 03/05/2021 17:02

You do realise that boys and men get raped too? I have an ex who is lovely (he's a regular old cis man) who used to volunteer as a rape crisis counselor and used to provide peer support to men and boys in hospital who were undergoing forensic exams. You'd be surprised how little support there is for male rape survivors of rape, never mind trans people. Trans men and women also get raped.

ArabellaScott · 03/05/2021 17:02

@Waitwhat23

I thought posts like that are restricted to women applicants only and are exempt under Schedule 9, Part 1, Paragraph 1 of the Equality Act 2010?

The guidance notes for the Act mention rape crisis services specifically -
'A counsellor working with victims of rape might have to be a woman and not a transsexual person, even if she has a Gender Recognition Certificate, in order to avoid causing them further distress.'

Yes, I believe it was.

<a class="break-all" href="https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:paxmOF_VSbUJ:goodmoves.com/vacancy/a4s3z00000wMrByAAK/chief-executive-officer-28-hours%3FRoleID%3D6%26page%3D28+&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:paxmOF_VSbUJ:goodmoves.com/vacancy/a4s3z00000wMrByAAK/chief-executive-officer-28-hours%3FRoleID%3D6%26page%3D28+&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

OP posts:
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 03/05/2021 17:02

@seadreams

Totally ignoring this particular issue (which I don’t think is an issue). Why should Men not also be able to avail of RCC services. Men can and do get raped and deserve all the supports that are available for women. Besides group therapy, nearly all services are on an individual basis anyway. In my local RCC, all services are for people who have been assaulted and the only reference to gender is in regards to group therapy. I would be horrified to think that men could be turned away and not receive the supports I was offered after my assault.
Men who have been subjected to rape deserve support too. However, as a different demographic, they may need supported tailored to them. As do women.

All-size-fits-all services, like clothes, sometimes end up fitting no-one.

kowari · 03/05/2021 17:02

It was my understanding that they specify sex for certain roles, but they can't discriminate by gender identity can they? By only considering a male applicant because they wish to be seen as a woman, haven't they unfairly discriminated against males who identify or wish to be seen as men?

Graffitiqueen · 03/05/2021 17:03

@mindutopia

You do realise that boys and men get raped too? I have an ex who is lovely (he's a regular old cis man) who used to volunteer as a rape crisis counselor and used to provide peer support to men and boys in hospital who were undergoing forensic exams. You'd be surprised how little support there is for male rape survivors of rape, never mind trans people. Trans men and women also get raped.
What about the menz?!🙄
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 03/05/2021 17:03

@kowari

It was my understanding that they specify sex for certain roles, but they can't discriminate by gender identity can they? By only considering a male applicant because they wish to be seen as a woman, haven't they unfairly discriminated against males who identify or wish to be seen as men?
Yes, I think they have.
lifeturnsonadime · 03/05/2021 17:04

@LondonStone

This is why everyone thinks Mumsnet is shit and transphobic. I really like it here generally but I’d be embarrassed to mention it in real life.
Exactly how is supporting women's rights, as set out in our laws, transphobic?
Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/05/2021 17:05

This is why everyone thinks Mumsnet is shit and transphobic. I really like it here generally but I’d be embarrassed to mention it in real life.

Perhaps you should do some research on this specific person and consider whether they have the requisite empathy and consideration for women to run a rape counselling service.

The Equality Act specifically makes provision for excluding all males from applying for these jobs, something RCE have dishonestly made use of in excluding other males via the sex based exemption for genuine occupational need.

HollowTalk · 03/05/2021 17:05

The thing is that if Mridhul Wadhwa was a woman, they'd know exactly why a woman is need for the CEO job of Rape Crisis.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/05/2021 17:07

Well no, to be fair they have lots of female cheerleaders.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 03/05/2021 17:08

EXTRACT from Karen Ingala Smith, professional in the violence against women sector

It’s not unusual for women who’ve been subjected to men’s violence to develop a trauma response. These sometimes develop after a single incident of violence, particularly with regards to sexual violence, though sometimes it can develop after years or months of living in fear, walking on egg-shells, recognising that tone of voice, that look in the eyes, that sigh, that pause, that silence, that change in his breathing. Some women have lived this, with a succession of perpetrators starting from their dad – who may have been physically, sexually or emotionally violent, abusive and controlling or a mixture of them all – all their lives.

Post-traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) can develop in response to trauma that may have occurred recently or in the distant past. Those who have experienced sexual trauma, especially whilst young are at greater risk, with victims of multiple forms of childhood abuse and neglect most at risk of lifetime trauma[i]Women victim-survivors of child sexual abuse are at least twice as likely to experience adult sexual victimisation[ii]. 51% of adults who were abused as children experienced domestic abuse in later life and approximately one in six adults who were abused as a child had been subjected to domestic violence and abuse in the previous year[iii].

[...]

After trauma, the brain can be triggered by something that would barely register for someone else, interpreting something that for many people would be unthreatening as a serious threat or danger, for example the presence of a man, particularly where not expected.

PTSD/trauma responses happen in a part of the brain called the amygdala. The amygdala detects a threat or perceived threat and can activate a “fight or flight” response. This releases adrenaline, norepinephrine, and glucose into the body, and if the threat continues, cortisol. A part of the prefrontal cortex (an area in the front of the brain that processes emotions and behavioural reactions) assesses the threat and can either calm or reinforce the fight or flight response. People suffering trauma/PTSD have a hyper reactive amygdala and a less effective calming prefrontal cortex reaction. The brain becomes overwhelmed by the trauma (pre-frontal cortex shutdown) leading to disorientation and confusion as the higher brain functions of reasoning and language are disrupted. Thinking and reasoning can be drowned out by feeling and being. Prolonged stress can lead to permanent change in the prefrontal cortex.

A trauma-informed safe space creates space for action and recovery from violence and abuse and places the woman victim-survivor in control and in the centre. The trauma response described earlier is the antithesis of a space for action and recovery, so a trauma informed approach is based on understanding the physical, social, and emotional impact of trauma caused by experiencing violence and abuse. A trauma-informed service for women understands the importance of creating an environment – physical and relational – that feels safe to victims-survivors in all the ways I’ve just mentioned. For many women this means excluding men from their recovery space, and yes, this includes those who don’t identify as men. Their behaviour, the likelihood that they themselves may be abusive, is not relevant. If it is not women-only, it is not trauma informed for women who have been subjected to men’s violence.

We know that at least 80% of males who hold a gender recognition certificate retain their penis, but anyway, in almost every case, we don’t need to know what’s in their pants to know they are a man. Women experiencing trauma after violence and abuse will, like most of us – almost always instantly read someone who might be the most kind and gentle trans identified male in the world – as male; and they may experience a debilitating trauma response as a result. It’s not their fault, it’s not a choice and it’s not something they can be educated out of. It’s not hate. It’s not bigotry. It’s not transphobia. It is an impact of abuse and they need space, support and sometimes therapy – not increased confrontation with a trauma inducing trigger; not nowhere to go that offers a woman-only space.

kareningalasmith.com/2020/07/08/trauma-informed-services-for-women-subjected-to-mens-violence-must-be-single-sex-services/amp/

donquixotedelamancha · 03/05/2021 17:10

Is rape crisis centre a designated women's only space? Refuges are, but not the whole service. Are only women allowed be rape counsellors? As pp said men get raped too. As do transwomen and transmen (scarily high proportion i believe). Should women not be allowed a choice of gender in their counsellors?

Which is all fine (and I don't know enough about that RCS to opine) but when a post is exempt from the EA2010 it is only for valid reasons. Clearly if a biological man can be appointed then the single sex exemption for the CEO role should not have been used.

While I don't think a man losing out on this job is a huge concern it's in everyone's interest that the EA functions properly in recruitment.

toconclude · 03/05/2021 17:12

Because trans women never get raped?

FFS

lifeturnsonadime · 03/05/2021 17:14

@toconclude

Because trans women never get raped?

FFS

What a ridiculous post. Not one person has suggested that transpeople don't get raped or don't need provision.

It just shouldn't be the same provision as for women because of single sex exemptions and the right of women to seek refuge or help away from people with penises (however they identify) ought to be the priority given the impact it can reasonably have on women.

But if you don't care about what biological women need you won't see the problem.

Jesusmaryjosephandthecamel · 03/05/2021 17:14

Women are not the only victims of rape. My local centre sees male and female victims.

RosaLuxemb0urg · 03/05/2021 17:15

@vinoandbrie

This person should not have this role. It’s inappropriate on every level.
completely agree with this
mollythemeerkat · 03/05/2021 17:15

@Ereshkigalangcleg

It's not an issue. She'll be an excellent CEO. YABU, however, for bringing your trans-bashing out of the Feminism boards. And I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks so. MN isn't just for transphobes.

Believing women's single sex services shouldn't be used as a tool for politically furthering the interests of biological males isn't "transphobia".

Quite.
FFSFFSFFS · 03/05/2021 17:16

Anyone who dismisses what some women are very clearly saying about the needs of female victims of sexual violence need really needs to take a good look at themselves.

There are women on this thread who have been victims of sexual violence who are quite clearly saying that they do not want a penis person anywhere near a rape crisis support organisation. How ON EARTH can you dismiss that???

And a person with a penis who wants to spend their entire working life with women who have been the victims of sexual assault is creepy. Really creepy.

FwiwNotMuch · 03/05/2021 17:16

@LondonStone

This is why everyone thinks Mumsnet is shit and transphobic. I really like it here generally but I’d be embarrassed to mention it in real life.
A very tiny minority is erasing the rights of women by continual shouting transphobia at anyone that dare question anything. No one is saying they cannot be a rape councillor nor that they may be totally qualified to assist some people in crisis. What we are saying is that they lied to get into the position they now hold by withholding their biological and certified and recognised gender status in order to achieve a position they otherwise could or would not have been eligible to apply for.
kowari · 03/05/2021 17:16

@toconclude

Because trans women never get raped?

FFS

Men who are not trans get raped too, yet most men were excluded from applying.
buffyp · 03/05/2021 17:17

@JammyGem

Oh give over.

She is a woman, she'll be perfectly fine at the job.

No they are not. You can try and pretend human biology doesn’t exist as much as you like but it doesn’t stop it being a fact not an opinion.
vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 03/05/2021 17:18

This person has spoken about how women have orgasms while being raped?

And someone on this thread has also heard of this?

Anyone got a reference for this --other than from a dog eared Nancy Friday?

AvocadoBathroom · 03/05/2021 17:19

They lied about their sex to get the job. I think that alone makes them a huge problem. Watch as women are now pushed out of this service. This was a token hire and it will backfire badly for women.