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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that a Rape Crisis centre should not have a transwoman CEO?

999 replies

ArabellaScott · 03/05/2021 16:18

Mridhul Wadhwa has just been appointed CEO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis. The job was advertised as for women only. Mridhul is a transwoman (born male) without a Gender Recognition Certificate.

AIBU to think that women survivors of rape and sexual violence should be able to have a female only space?

theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2021/05/new-boss-for-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
Leafstamp · 05/05/2021 12:45

@poppycat10

This thread prompted me to check my employer's diversity policy. It says that it covers the various protected characteristics under the EA - including sex and gender reassignment. So far so good.

But then it says that it monitors work carried out related to certain characteristics as well as any disciplinary action taken in relation to certain characteristics - and both refer to gender, not sex or gender reassignment. Hmmmm.

Am I brave enough to point this out? I don't think so, but if I ever leave the job, I will.

The trick here is to keep it factual and brief:

Dear HR manager, I noticed that the company diversity policy incorrectly uses gender, at paragraph X and Y, when the correct term should be those in the legislation (sex), please could this be amended at the next review of the policy?

See also: www.gov.uk/personal-data-my-employer-can-keep-about-me

As it sounds like they are in breach of GDPR as well!

SirVixofVixHall · 05/05/2021 12:45

@Skysblue

That’s awful 😞

So a rape crisis centre is now being run by someone who doesn’t think that biological women should be allowed a refuge from biologcal men. I find it beyond creepy that this person sought that job. It’s part of a very deliberate campaign to destroy safe spaces for women.

This. A deliberate push to ignore sex and see it as unimportant, only “gender identity” matters.
FlattestWhite · 05/05/2021 12:55

[quote Waitwhat23]@FlattestWhite this is a useful article to explain how this whole debate has taken such a hold - www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists[/quote]
thanks. That is really quite horrifying.

FlattestWhite · 05/05/2021 12:56

(assuming I am perceiving correctly what he seems to be hinting at)

R0wantrees · 05/05/2021 13:02

Women are gas-lighted (manipulated to question their own judgement or even sanity) by their abusive male partners all the time. It is a cornerstone of coercive control.

thread with resources describing this dynamic and support:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3452784-Coercive-Control-a-need-for-better-awareness

Fernlake · 05/05/2021 13:02

FlattestWhite

You are right to question where this is coming from.

And it would appear several places at once. For instance, if you search on here for the Denton report, it describes how the whole narrative was deliberately put forward, and done by stealth in order not to draw attention.

And then there is the loud, public narrative of oppression, and how women are really oppressing men and not the other way round.

On the thread in FWR on this same subject, a poster was talking about how activists for the Scottish legislation wanted it to say gender instead of sex when it came to how you can specify your HCP if you've been raped. Obviously gender is meaningless in that context. Whereas sex is explicit.

The poster notes:

During the #SixWords campaign, I got into a few arguments online with young women who were against the amendment. They all kept parrotting that rape victims shouldn't "punch down" by asking for a female doctor to do the medical examination.

These are young woman who would, no doubt, consider themselves progressive, but with the ingrained belief that raped women can oppress the man who is sent to examine them.

It's quite mind-boggling that we have come to this.

Fernlake · 05/05/2021 13:05

Ah, Waitwhat23 has linked to the Denton report that I mentioned in my post.

It's eye-opening stuff (take wine).

ArabellaScott · 05/05/2021 13:06

LifeInAHamsterWheel, great, thanks for posting. I'm glad the thread has been useful for readers. They are sometimes complex and difficult issues involved - I'm well aware of that!

It's great to hear different viewpoints, including from those who think differently, so thanks to everyone who's offered their point of view. Especially those who've linked to more information and offered insights and evidence.

It'll be really interesting to see how Ann Sinnot's case goes in court tomorrow, in particular, because that is - as far as I can tell - very relevant to situations like this one.

OP posts:
Caplin · 05/05/2021 13:14

I live in Edinburgh, she seems absolutely qualified and also understands the BAME aspects which is important.

She is the CEO, she has a ton of experience working in the sector. What do you think is going to happen exactly? No wait, I know exactly what you think and it is grim.

Kit19 · 05/05/2021 13:16

MW is male and the job was advertised for women only under the equality act

they are not a woman therefore they should not have been given the job

HecatesCatsInFancyHats · 05/05/2021 13:17

If you read the full thread you would see that this is about the needs of the service users. This is about empathy with their trauma and whether even being around male bodies people in a rape crisis setting is appropriate. Likewise it's about the legality of the appointment, since the EQA2010 has not been followed.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 05/05/2021 13:20

@Caplin

I live in Edinburgh, she seems absolutely qualified and also understands the BAME aspects which is important.

She is the CEO, she has a ton of experience working in the sector. What do you think is going to happen exactly? No wait, I know exactly what you think and it is grim.

Again... did you read ANY of the previous repsonses?

It's a legal issue.

You can believe TWAW if you wnt to, that does not negate the legal issue with the appointment.

And yes... it is grim. Any abused, traumatised woman being forced to accept a male bodied person as female when they believe themselves to be in a safe, and exclusively female space really is grim!

But that wasn't waht you were intimating, was it?

R0wantrees · 05/05/2021 13:24

She is the CEO, she has a ton of experience working in the sector. What do you think is going to happen exactly? No wait, I know exactly what you think and it is grim.

Midrul Wadhwa campaigned against the right for women who were victims of rape to request a female forensic examiner (same sex rather than gender identity)

Holyrood
by Mandy Rhodes
13 December 2020
"Six little words: for the word ‘gender’ substitute ‘sex’
(extract)
How have we got to a place where female victims of sexual violence have to go public on their suffering and plead with MSPs to pass a legislative amendment that would mean they get to choose the sex of the person that examines them following rape?

How have we got to a place where women who have been sexually brutalised have to run the gauntlet of gender ideology just so they can specify they want a biological woman to examine them rather than a man?

How have we got to a place where women who have been raped get called transphobes, bigots and TERFs for insisting a woman carries out what must be the most hellish of procedures after their body has been so violated by a man?

And how have we got to a place where the national support service, set up by women for women to support women through the trauma of rape, tells victims that they have got it wrong?" (continues)

www.holyrood.com/editors-column/view,six-little-words-for-the-word-gender-substitute-sex

To think that a Rape Crisis centre should not have a transwoman CEO?
HecatesCatsInFancyHats · 05/05/2021 13:25

Midrul Wadhwa campaigned against the right for women who were victims of rape to request a female forensic examiner (same sex rather than gender identity)

This doesn't feel like an appropriate appointment at all.

R0wantrees · 05/05/2021 13:27

article above concludes:

"Last week, as MSPs were preparing to vote on Lamont’s amendment, I spent an hour on the phone with a heartbroken mother of a girl who had been gang raped.

The attack had left her daughter broken. But it was made worse when she didn’t get the support she needed when she needed it because she was told that a woman could not be guaranteed.

She developed PTSD and while she is now back on track, her mum is enraged. She has been made to feel like a bigot for opening up about her daughter’s trauma and for calling for the right of rape victims to choose the sex of who supports them to be law.

‘Replace gender with sex’ – six little words that encapsulate so much of what has passed for debate on what it means to be a woman over the last painful two years.

With the passing of the Lamont amendment, it is perhaps now time to listen properly."

HecatesCatsInFancyHats · 05/05/2021 13:32

Shared from a poster on another thread - about the women's rights situation in Scotland:

"What is driving the SNP’s behavior? In the case of equality legislation, many of its activists believe that gender self-identification is the great civil-rights struggle of our time. Another explanation is that the party’s hegemony is so assured that its leaders live in a hall of mirrors, with NGOs and lobbyists reflecting their own opinions back at them. Big charities rely on the Scottish government for the bulk of their income, encouraging them not to rock the boat. It was considered radical when McAlpine invited grassroots feminist groups and gender-critical academics to give evidence about recording sex data in the census—instead of relying solely on charities such as Engender, which receives £275,000 of its yearly £355,000 income from the government. She had broken the hall of mirrors."

www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/05/nicola-sturgeon-scotland-election/618790/

Helleofabore · 05/05/2021 13:32

Caplin

I think by that last couple of lines

What do you think is going to happen exactly? No wait, I know exactly what you think and it is grim

You pretty much have told everyone that you intention is not to discuss the issue at hand, not to read the many links and evidence linked, and to make groundless and derogatory assertions.

Instead, your intention seems to be to shame women discussing the legalities of this appointment as well as the needs of traumatised women.

littlbrowndog · 05/05/2021 13:33

Imagine women and girls in Scotland being so rude and cheeky to ask for a female forensic examiner to examine them after being raped 🤷‍♀️

Imagine the CEO of a rape centre campaigning against these women’ and girls to have a female forensic examiner

Just imagine that

R0wantrees · 05/05/2021 13:35

Critic by Jo Bartosch
14 December, 2020
'Scottish women’s rights virtue-signalled away'
(extract)
"The reluctance of some politicians to stand up for women’s rights against the might of the transgender lobby is perhaps to be expected. But the stance of Rape Crisis Scotland (RCS) has shocked even seasoned women’s rights campaigners.

In a column for The Scotsman RCS chief executive Sandy Brindley rejected the suggestion that sex and gender ought not to be used interchangeably in law arguing:

Johann Lamont MSP has this week lodged an amendment to the bill, to change the reference from ‘gender’ to ‘sex’. It is not clear what she is trying to achieve with this – some commentators see this as a development which would exclude trans women doctors from carrying out forensic examinations.

On social media RCS doubled down tweeting, “Don’t let gender row obscure the need for changes to the way rape survivors are treated in Scotland.”
thecritic.co.uk/women-in-scotland-risk-having-their-rights-virtue-signalled-away/

paralysedbyinertia · 05/05/2021 13:36

@littlbrowndog

Imagine women and girls in Scotland being so rude and cheeky to ask for a female forensic examiner to examine them after being raped 🤷‍♀️

Imagine the CEO of a rape centre campaigning against these women’ and girls to have a female forensic examiner

Just imagine that

This is really upsetting, and I don't know how anyone can think it's ok.
JoodyBlue · 05/05/2021 13:36

@Caplin

I live in Edinburgh, she seems absolutely qualified and also understands the BAME aspects which is important.

She is the CEO, she has a ton of experience working in the sector. What do you think is going to happen exactly? No wait, I know exactly what you think and it is grim.

MW has cited not experiencing fear. Therefore no appreciation for the fear that an abused woman has around a male body. Therefore being an influential decision maker in a centre for abused women is highly inappropriate. Can you argue against that?
CardinalLolzy · 05/05/2021 13:37

If I could change one thing about mumsnet it would be that everyone who posts would read the full thread before chiming in to display their utter ignorance at what they imagine is the issue rather than what is actually being discussed.

If I could change two things it would be that people defining "woman" would realise the very basic and glaring logical flaw in using the word "woman" in the definition. That's the word that needs defining!

CardinalLolzy · 05/05/2021 13:39

@littlbrowndog

Imagine women and girls in Scotland being so rude and cheeky to ask for a female forensic examiner to examine them after being raped 🤷‍♀️

Imagine the CEO of a rape centre campaigning against these women’ and girls to have a female forensic examiner

Just imagine that

See also what happened to Clare Dimyon, MBE for "services promoting the rights of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people in central and eastern Europe".
Fernlake · 05/05/2021 13:39

What do you think is going to happen exactly? No wait, I know exactly what you think and it is grim

It's grim that a girl who was gang raped wants a female doctor to examine her injuries?

You surely can't believe that.

Leafstamp · 05/05/2021 13:41

@Caplin

This charity has been reported to the Scottish Charity Commission for breaking the law.

I suggest you RTFT.