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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that a Rape Crisis centre should not have a transwoman CEO?

999 replies

ArabellaScott · 03/05/2021 16:18

Mridhul Wadhwa has just been appointed CEO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis. The job was advertised as for women only. Mridhul is a transwoman (born male) without a Gender Recognition Certificate.

AIBU to think that women survivors of rape and sexual violence should be able to have a female only space?

theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2021/05/new-boss-for-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 04/05/2021 15:35

@Bramblebutter

I've only read the OPs post. Just wanted to say (presumably adding to the many already) that I find this extremely offensive. A trans woman is a woman.
You'll have missed this, then.

EXTRACT from Karen Ingala Smith, professional in the violence against women sector

It’s not unusual for women who’ve been subjected to men’s violence to develop a trauma response. These sometimes develop after a single incident of violence, particularly with regards to sexual violence, though sometimes it can develop after years or months of living in fear, walking on egg-shells, recognising that tone of voice, that look in the eyes, that sigh, that pause, that silence, that change in his breathing. Some women have lived this, with a succession of perpetrators starting from their dad – who may have been physically, sexually or emotionally violent, abusive and controlling or a mixture of them all – all their lives.

Post-traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) can develop in response to trauma that may have occurred recently or in the distant past. Those who have experienced sexual trauma, especially whilst young are at greater risk, with victims of multiple forms of childhood abuse and neglect most at risk of lifetime trauma[i]Women victim-survivors of child sexual abuse are at least twice as likely to experience adult sexual victimisation[ii]. 51% of adults who were abused as children experienced domestic abuse in later life and approximately one in six adults who were abused as a child had been subjected to domestic violence and abuse in the previous year[iii].

[...]

After trauma, the brain can be triggered by something that would barely register for someone else, interpreting something that for many people would be unthreatening as a serious threat or danger, for example the presence of a man, particularly where not expected.

PTSD/trauma responses happen in a part of the brain called the amygdala. The amygdala detects a threat or perceived threat and can activate a “fight or flight” response. This releases adrenaline, norepinephrine, and glucose into the body, and if the threat continues, cortisol. A part of the prefrontal cortex (an area in the front of the brain that processes emotions and behavioural reactions) assesses the threat and can either calm or reinforce the fight or flight response. People suffering trauma/PTSD have a hyper reactive amygdala and a less effective calming prefrontal cortex reaction. The brain becomes overwhelmed by the trauma (pre-frontal cortex shutdown) leading to disorientation and confusion as the higher brain functions of reasoning and language are disrupted. Thinking and reasoning can be drowned out by feeling and being. Prolonged stress can lead to permanent change in the prefrontal cortex.

A trauma-informed safe space creates space for action and recovery from violence and abuse and places the woman victim-survivor in control and in the centre. The trauma response described earlier is the antithesis of a space for action and recovery, so a trauma informed approach is based on understanding the physical, social, and emotional impact of trauma caused by experiencing violence and abuse. A trauma-informed service for women understands the importance of creating an environment – physical and relational – that feels safe to victims-survivors in all the ways I’ve just mentioned. For many women this means excluding men from their recovery space, and yes, this includes those who don’t identify as men. Their behaviour, the likelihood that they themselves may be abusive, is not relevant. If it is not women-only, it is not trauma informed for women who have been subjected to men’s violence.

We know that at least 80% of males who hold a gender recognition certificate retain their penis, but anyway, in almost every case, we don’t need to know what’s in their pants to know they are a man. Women experiencing trauma after violence and abuse will, like most of us – almost always instantly read someone who might be the most kind and gentle trans identified male in the world – as male; and they may experience a debilitating trauma response as a result. It’s not their fault, it’s not a choice and it’s not something they can be educated out of. It’s not hate. It’s not bigotry. It’s not transphobia. It is an impact of abuse and they need space, support and sometimes therapy – not increased confrontation with a trauma inducing trigger; not nowhere to go that offers a woman-only space.

(Continues here) kareningalasmith.com/2020/07/08/trauma-informed-services-for-women-subjected-to-mens-violence-must-be-single-sex-services/amp/

SixesAndEights · 04/05/2021 15:37

@CommunistLegoBloc

Imagine, just imagine, ringing a Rape Crisis line, and a man's voice answering.
If you were a man you might be relieved.
DrSbaitso · 04/05/2021 15:41

Ifyou were a man you might be relieved.

Why would a man be contacting a women's rape crisis centre? To get a job as CEO?

honeyytoast · 04/05/2021 15:42

Ridiculous, it’s not as if it’s a straight white man who benefits from rape culture. (Even if it was - it doesn’t mean he wouldn’t be a good CEO). How involved is the CEO in person with actual rape victims anyway?
Also, not only women are raped.

Redapplewreath · 04/05/2021 15:44

I've only read the OPs post. Just wanted to say (presumably adding to the many already) that I find this extremely offensive.

If you had taken the time to read the thread, you may understand more of the issues and be less offended. Just a thought.

Which is more important in a rape crisis service? Lovely diversity that can be evidenced and celebrated? Or ensuring understanding and meeting the needs of all female people needing to access the service as by far the largest class group of users?

If some service users are having to be excluded in order to allow other service users to be able to use the resources of their choice as opposed to the services intended for them? That's not inclusion. It's not even successful service provision.

And to place someone in this role who has a direct personal investment in one particular political outcome, not to mention someone with an openly expressed bias to that outcome and a willingness to exclude female people who cannot conform to that political position?

Ethics. Basic ethics.

HannaHat · 04/05/2021 15:44

Why would a man be contacting a women's rape crisis centre? To get a job as CEO?

Haha! 🔥

CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/05/2021 15:47

Jesus wept!

The mission creep is amazing and some of you are entirely missing the point.

The job was specifically advertised to be filled by a female only.

  • the succesful candidate is not female, does not hold a GRC, is male bodied and lied to get into the sector in the first place.
  • any man who wanted to apply to be a CEO, but did not because the EA2010 stipulation has been discriminated against.
  • EVERY woman applying for EVERY job shpuld be looking at this and wondering why legislation designed to protect women, in life, jobs etc, is being subverted. Why the law is being undermined?
  • EVERY woman needs to look beyond the feelings about transwomen and men and look at the legalities of this. Self ID is NOT a law. GRC does NOT mean a person has changed sex, it means that for many but NOT ALL legal purposes, that person should be accorded the legal acknowledgement of their chosen gender.
  • Accepting the legality of this appointment without question is not being kind, inclusive, etc. It is acquiescing in the dismantling of women's right.
  • Querying this appointment is not being transphobic. It is recognising and disagreeing with the continued undermining of women's rights.

WAKE THE FUCK UP!

Leafstamp · 04/05/2021 15:49

@lifeturnsonadime

The Edinburgh Rape Crisis centre tweeted about MH's appointment yesterday. There were 100s of responses to that tweet questioning the ERC's understanding of the Equality Act and tweeting concern about the impact on service users etc.

Rather than addressing those concerns and discussing them with women they have deleted the tweet and have retweeted and turned off commenting.

Seems like ERC doesn't want to hear the voices of women.

I intend on contacting them to ask them why they did this.
ArabellaScott · 04/05/2021 15:52

@honeyytoast

Ridiculous, it’s not as if it’s a straight white man who benefits from rape culture. (Even if it was - it doesn’t mean he wouldn’t be a good CEO). How involved is the CEO in person with actual rape victims anyway? Also, not only women are raped.
What on earth does Wadhwa's race have to do with whether or not they 'benefit from rape culture'? And what does that phrase even mean?

As for 'not only women'. Okay. Men are raped, therefore women are not entitled to the services they need? Is that the logic?

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 04/05/2021 15:54

Also, for what it's worth - those saying they find it offensive to say a transwoman is not a woman.

  • I find it offensive to say a transwoman is a woman. (As well as being factually inaccurate, in biological, legal, linguistic, and logical terms).

So how do we proceed from here?

OP posts:
CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/05/2021 15:56

@honeyytoast

Ridiculous, it’s not as if it’s a straight white man who benefits from rape culture. (Even if it was - it doesn’t mean he wouldn’t be a good CEO). How involved is the CEO in person with actual rape victims anyway? Also, not only women are raped.
And?

If the organisation thought a man would would be a good CEO then why did they invoke the EA2010 exception?

And who knows how involved the CEO is? Presumably the organisation thought they would be involved enough to make the EA2010 expection appropriate. Why invoke it otherwise?

And many rape crisis centres have capacity and crystal clear procedures for men and transpeople to access their services - I work closely with 2, I am not guessing!

What both of them do is make their service specific to their client base and they NEVER muddy the waters. One is run by women for women and never, ever for me, transwomen or, as it transpires, transmen. That was the decision made by the the women who use the centre.

The other has larger space and can offer discrete, separate accommodation and so does offer its services to transpeople and men.

They are about 4 miles apart and we offer transport to each! Some of the staff work in both, the funding streams are party joint, partly separate, depending on what the source of money requires.

They are both entirely legal as they work within their published remit.

That is how it is supposed to work!

Helleofabore · 04/05/2021 15:57

Thank you all the posters who have taken the time to actually read the thread and leave considered posts. And for posting links etc.

lifeissweet · 04/05/2021 15:58

'Men are raped too'

Again and again and again and again.

This thread is about a women's rape centre and so, so many people come on to talk about men. Why? What do they have to do with anything?

No one has ever said that men are never rape victims, but they can not expect to access services for female rape victims. Jesus. Why does this need to be said? It's really not that complicated.

Allwokedup · 04/05/2021 15:59

She is a woman.

lifeissweet · 04/05/2021 16:01

@Allwokedup

She is a woman.
Not legally. Not according to the Equality Act cited be the women's rape crisis centre advertising the job.

No GRC and not a biological woman, so not even in a legal fiction sense.

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 04/05/2021 16:02

@Allwokedup

She is a woman.
Seahorses are horses.

Day is night.

Eastasia has always been at war with Eurasia.

toffeebutterpopcorn · 04/05/2021 16:02

@Allwokedup

She is a woman.
Please explain in what way.
Fernlake · 04/05/2021 16:02

@lifeissweet

'Men are raped too'

Again and again and again and again.

This thread is about a women's rape centre and so, so many people come on to talk about men. Why? What do they have to do with anything?

No one has ever said that men are never rape victims, but they can not expect to access services for female rape victims. Jesus. Why does this need to be said? It's really not that complicated.

Its a complete logic fail.

Men are raped, so women should be denied single sex provision.

It's almost as though there is no reason to deny single sex provision for women, and so one has to talk about something else entirely.

AfternoonToffee · 04/05/2021 16:03

*If you were a man you might be relieved."

Going to go out on a limb here and say they probably wouldn't be, if a man has been raped then it has been so by another man, so could be just as traumatising.

How involved is the CEO in person with actual rape victims anyway?

They steer the service, they dictate the culture of the service, so much more influential then the people on the ground.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 04/05/2021 16:04

Previously, MW was the manager of a different rape crisis centre. It is quite clear from this interview that in that capacity, MW saw service users. I think that will also be the case if MW is the CEO of another centre.

The work is incredibly emotionally draining, so Wadhwa has to be balanced and mindful of her own emotional state. The Student asked her what she does to take care of herself: “Well I don’t deal with individual survivors every day, so for me what I do in terms of self-care is a lot of avoidance. I do see survivors – four a week usually – who help me stay connected to the cause…but it’s important to keep it fun. We should be able to laugh and use humour atwork.In terms of my team, I try to cook for them once a week or every other week.”

studentnewspaper.org/article/an-insight-with-mridul-wadhwa-into-working-in-a-rape-crisis-centre

HecatesCatsInFancyHats · 04/05/2021 16:04

It's almost as though there is no reason to deny single sex provision for women, and so one has to talk about something else entirely.

Always.

ArabellaScott · 04/05/2021 16:06

One minor point - from what I recall reading, male victims of rape also tend to prefer female counsellors. Can't remember where the source for that was, though, apologies.

OP posts:
TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 04/05/2021 16:07

Any of you TWAW believers got a definition of “woman” that works yet?

“Someone who identifies as a woman” doesn’t work because it still doesn’t define “woman”: what exactly do they identify as?

And it also excludes all the women who don’t “identify as” anything but just know they’re women because of the material reality that they are adult human females.

Come on. You must mean something when you use the word “woman”, otherwise you might as well be talking gobbledegook.

So what is it? What is it exactly that you mean by “woman” when you say TWAW?

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 04/05/2021 16:11

I do see survivors – four a week usually – who help me stay connected to the cause

It’s all about what they (these extremely vulnerable women) are doing for Wadhwa, isn’t it; nothing about what Wadhwa should be doing for them.

It’s tragic how blind some people are to such overt manifestations of narcissism.

Leafstamp · 04/05/2021 16:22

@TalkingtoLangClegintheDark

I do see survivors – four a week usually – who help me stay connected to the cause

It’s all about what they (these extremely vulnerable women) are doing for Wadhwa, isn’t it; nothing about what Wadhwa should be doing for them.

It’s tragic how blind some people are to such overt manifestations of narcissism.

Such a selfish approach to things seems to be perfectly in keeping with this person's modus operandi.

I'm not sure if this link has already been posted but it gives a bit more detail about MW being male:

twitter.com/hightreebud/status/1323965389144002562?s=20