To think that a Rape Crisis centre should not have a transwoman CEO?

[ArabellaScott]

Mridhul Wadhwa has just been appointed CEO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis. The job was advertised as for women only. Mridhul is a transwoman (born male) without a Gender Recognition Certificate.

AIBU to think that women survivors of rape and sexual violence should be able to have a female only space?

theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2021/05/new-boss-for-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre/

Male born people's needs are not more important than female people's needs, do not take automatic priority, and female only services are needed by some female people, regardless of whether male people are happy about it.

They’re not more important no. The law already allows for employment of natal only females if that is what is wanted.

You’re looking at it from a class analysis point if view. Perhaps ERC just want to get the right person in post that can ensure women will get an effective service.

MW looks like a woman. There’s no reason to assume people will be traumatised by her.

@lifeturnsonadime correct.
The guidance the NHS wrote on delivering same-sex accommodation means that anyone who considers themselves to be a woman is accommodated on female wards. No evidence above a self-declaration is required.
In the induction workshop, it was the Equality Act which was referenced and attention was given to the protected characteristics but not the scheduled exceptions.

@Anovaneway

Male born people's needs are not more important than female people's needs, do not take automatic priority, and female only services are needed by some female people, regardless of whether male people are happy about it.

They’re not more important no. The law already allows for employment of natal only females if that is what is wanted.

You’re looking at it from a class analysis point if view. Perhaps ERC just want to get the right person in post that can ensure women will get an effective service.

MW looks like a woman. There’s no reason to assume people will be traumatised by her.

I think that’s your subjective opinion. And so you think that it is reasonable to assume that women will be traumatised by a transwoman they believe to look like a male?

But Anovaneway they did advertise it as a woman only post under the exemptions. Then went ahead and employed a male.

MW has an agenda which is clear from the information on this thread, to remove the right for women to request a person of the same sex.

Whether some service users will be fine with MW is irrelevant. I

MW looks like a woman.

But isn't one.

The Edinburgh Rape Crisis centre tweeted about MH's appointment yesterday. There were 100s of responses to that tweet questioning the ERC's understanding of the Equality Act and tweeting concern about the impact on service users etc.

Rather than addressing those concerns and discussing them with women they have deleted the tweet and have retweeted and turned off commenting.

Seems like ERC doesn't want to hear the voices of women.

Personally I think YABU. I can see that there are complex and difficult discussions around female-only spaces and children transitioning, but I have no sympathy at all with the idea that a transwoman is poorly qualified to be CEO of a Rape Crisis centre. Trans people experience very high rates of sexual violence, and having a trans person in charge would presumably create a space in which we can recognise the diversity among survivors of rape and sexual violence.

Note that I am not at all denying here that women are the large majority of survivors of sexual violence.

@DrSbaitso

MW looks like a woman.

But isn't one.

When I was at school, one charming classmate said to me 'oh, you're in my class - I always thought you looked intelligent'

Edinburgh Rape Crisis have now deleted yesterday's announcement tweet (thus erasing all replies) & posted the announcement again with the ability to comment limited to anyone mentioned in the tweet, which is, er... the new CEO.

twitter.com/EdinRapeCrisis/status/1389562003904159746

They haven't got round to deleting the begging tweet which followed yesterday's announcement. Let's say the comments aren't 100% supportive...

@WanderleyWagon

Personally I think YABU. I can see that there are complex and difficult discussions around female-only spaces and children transitioning, but I have no sympathy at all with the idea that a transwoman is poorly qualified to be CEO of a Rape Crisis centre. Trans people experience very high rates of sexual violence, and having a trans person in charge would presumably create a space in which we can recognise the diversity among survivors of rape and sexual violence.

Note that I am not at all denying here that women are the large majority of survivors of sexual violence.

Trans people experience very high rates of sexual violence

It's odd, I keep hearing this but I always thought it was women who experienced high rates of sexual violence. Do you have any research or figures to go with this statement?

@WanderleyWagon

Personally I think YABU. I can see that there are complex and difficult discussions around female-only spaces and children transitioning, but I have no sympathy at all with the idea that a transwoman is poorly qualified to be CEO of a Rape Crisis centre. Trans people experience very high rates of sexual violence, and having a trans person in charge would presumably create a space in which we can recognise the diversity among survivors of rape and sexual violence.

Note that I am not at all denying here that women are the large majority of survivors of sexual violence.

What's the benefit of 'recognising diversity' in this exact situation?

I think raped women probably don't give a stuff about diversity, but want to be safe and have their needs met in a comfortable environment.

Trans people who experience rape and violence can go to a mixed sex or trans provision (and if there is no such provision, they can campaign and set one up like women once did). There can be diversity of provision. No problem.

But leave the women's sex based provision alone. Sometimes excluding people is necessary to meet an aim.

@WanderleyWagon

Personally I think YABU. I can see that there are complex and difficult discussions around female-only spaces and children transitioning, but I have no sympathy at all with the idea that a transwoman is poorly qualified to be CEO of a Rape Crisis centre. Trans people experience very high rates of sexual violence, and having a trans person in charge would presumably create a space in which we can recognise the diversity among survivors of rape and sexual violence.

Note that I am not at all denying here that women are the large majority of survivors of sexual violence.

Based on my experience in such an organisation, I can assure you that most, if not all, of the women I dealt with wanted to talk to women & would not have used our service if they had thought there was any possibility of a man being around to speak to them or know what they were saying.

For clarity, in those days man = male, & woman = female, so no playing with words please if you want to argue the toss with someone who's actually been on the front line. Thank you.

DrSbaitso it is not a requirement to attempt to look like a woman to be a transwoman. It' s an innate feeling apparently.

Google Danielle Muscato for an example.

I've only read the OPs post. Just wanted to say (presumably adding to the many already) that I find this extremely offensive. A trans woman is a woman.

it doesn't matter how ardent someone's belief is that transwomen are women, or how much they think that everyone should see things that way and are transphobic if they don't. EVEN THEN, they must realise that some people don't see things like this - however misguided they think it is - and that those people might be uncomfortable with a biologically male person supporting them when they are vulnerable. If they cared even the tiniest bit about those people, they would be trying to do what would make them comfortable, rather than continuing to promote their own beliefs. The fact that this person is not doing that shows that they are not the best person for the job. Not because they are trans, but because they refuse to see how a vulnerable woman might feel and support her when she is in need. Even if they think her views are wrong.

This person made a CEO of a charity responsible for the most vulnerable women is definitely not OK. Shame on ERC basking in their wokeness at the express of rape victims.

MW looks like a woman. There’s no reason to assume people will be traumatised by her.

You know MW personally then? Or just basing it off what you see on social media.

You must know that women aren’t idiots and there are many ways to tell who is male and who is female unless that male has had years of learning to walk differently as well as vocal exercises. I can tell that their voice is male from their interviews.

So, I take it you are ok with women being lied to if someone doesn’t look like a transwoman then. That if they are uncomfortable, it is their fault and their issue?

Do you even see what you have written? That for women who pick up that this person is male in a place where they are expecting and needing a female, it is on them if they are retraumatized because you’ve decreed that they look enough like a woman to not retraumatize women.

Got it.

@Bramblebutter

I've only read the OPs post. Just wanted to say (presumably adding to the many already) that I find this extremely offensive. A trans woman is a woman.

Even when there is no GRC or physical transition?

What is a man?

Bramblebutter why do you think that women should not have the right to single sex spaces as enshrined by the Equality Act?

What do you mean when you say a transwoman is a woman? What is a woman in your opinion?

@Bramblebutter

I've only read the OPs post. Just wanted to say (presumably adding to the many already) that I find this extremely offensive. A trans woman is a woman.

May I suggest you check the facts of this case, i.e. the job advert & the law which it invoked? Reading the thread would be a good place to start: there are links which may be of assistance.

@Bramblebutter

I've only read the OPs post. Just wanted to say (presumably adding to the many already) that I find this extremely offensive. A trans woman is a woman.

I find this extremely offensive. Women are female people.

Personally I think YABU. I can see that there are complex and difficult discussions around female-only spaces and children transitioning, but I have no sympathy at all with the idea that a transwoman is poorly qualified to be CEO of a Rape Crisis centre.

The job was advertised for females. This is person is not female and does not have a GRC even.

Trans people experience very high rates of sexual violence

This has no bearing on the fact that women require single sex spaces to heal. Transpeople have their own unique needs that should be addressed but not in a female single sex space.

and having a trans person in charge would presumably create a space in which we can recognise the diversity among survivors of rape and sexual violence.

Have you read what this particular transwoman has been recorded saying over the past five years? I have asked a few times, maybe you will answer.

What has this particular transwoman done to help alleviate the trauma of females? Very specifically. Their interviews and articles and tweets are easy to find, many are linked here.

Please be specific as we have listed specific instances showing that they do NOT support women. Including posting threatening tweets to women who disagree with them. Them, a person who daily works with traumatized women.

Note that I am not at all denying here that women are the large majority of survivors of sexual violence.

No, but you are ignoring the number of voices stating that this is not ok. That a job advertised with the exception clause of the EA 2010 has been ignored and a male has been employed instead. And a male with the particular opinions that should not have been overlooked if it was a female who was appointed either.

Women who have experienced abuse have very fine tuned radar but are often also trained not to trust their feelings. It is one of the many undermining and disempowering consequences of violence, coercion and gaslighting. I suspect at first glance many may take MW to pass. But still there may well be doubt and confusion and an insecurity. There is no right to pass that needlessly on to women who have been traumatised. MW has said on record that they have "no fear". Apparently no empathy for those that do. That is disqualification enough for this role.

@Bramblebutter

I've only read the OPs post. Just wanted to say (presumably adding to the many already) that I find this extremely offensive. A trans woman is a woman.

Well don’t be offended that many who have read the actual thread disagree with you.

And perhaps you should look at the evidence posted on this thread and make a judgement whether anyone with this history should be involved in making policy for the centre and influencing the Scottish government on women’s safeguarding issues.

Would love to have a conversation where you can point out how they have actively supported females who are in need of these services. Start off naming one initiative and we can go from there.